S9 E100: The Essence of Bedouin Hospitality With Wadi Rum’s Ahmad Mara’yeh

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[00:00:00] AM: You are traveling to different parts of the world. You're crossing like literally a really big distance to come to Wadi Rum Desert. Then I think it's really worth to have a chance to meet the people and to talk about the people to know. Because if you're just coming to have a, let's say, a fancy place to stay and just sleep and listen to music and then just go, then you'll miss a lot. Why are you even traveling?

[00:00:27] YD: Wadi Rum. Ever since I first stepped foot in this desert in the south of Jordan, I knew this would be a very special place for me. And it has been. Over the last six years of traveling to Jordan, I've come to this desert countless times, often spending days or weeks at a time there. There is a stillness to this desert that I rarely find elsewhere.

The vast landscapes of Wadi Rum make you feel small and your problems insignificant. And the light in this desert is golden. It's real almost. But it is the people of Wadi Rum that make it the most incredible place on earth. Over the years, I've been fortunate to make friendships with the people who live and work in this desert, the Bedouins.

I've witnessed their daily lives, celebrated with them during Eid holidays and went on their Jeep tour rides across the desert. Throughout every interaction, I've always felt like there is a warmth, integrity, and understanding among these people that is special. And today I want to share that feeling.

Welcome back, everyone. This is your host, Yulia Denysiuk, an award winning travel photographer, writer, community builder, storyteller, and entrepreneur. And today we're traveling to the desert of Wadi Rum in Southern Jordan for a conversation with Ahmad Maraye, a Bedouin man who together with his friends, Fala Zawadeh and Hassan runs Rum Planet Camp.

a traditional Bedouin camp in the desert. In this conversation, we're going to discuss what Bedouin culture is, how tourism has impacted Wadi Rum and the people living there, what sustainability looks like in the desert, and the misconceptions of traveling in the Middle East. We'll also discuss why Bedouins, while being just as busy and stressed out by work as anyone else, have a secret weapon to deal with it, what Ahmad misses about the traditional Bedouin lifestyle, and what Matt Damon, yes, THE Matt Damon, is like in real life.

I love our conversation with Ahmad, and I hope you will too. And if you want to know more about Ahmad and his camp, be sure to check out rumplanetcamp.com. And read my story in Afar magazine about why staying in a traditional camp like Ahmad's is a great way to support the Bedouin community. We'll link to all of these in the show notes.

There is another reason why today's episode is extra special to me. This is our 100th episode of the show. Can you believe it that we've been on this journey together for 100 whole episodes? I hope you've enjoyed the ride as much as I have. And if that's the case, help us celebrate. All this week, we're inviting you to share a review of our show on Apple Podcasts or a rating on Spotify for a chance to win a 20 minute coffee conversation with me.

That's right. Submit your review of our podcast on Apple Podcasts or a rating on Spotify. Share a screenshot of your submission on Instagram or Facebook, and be sure to tag me so I can see it at InSearchOfPerfect or at Travel Media Lab, and we'll choose a winner in seven The winner will get a one on one.

Coffee chat with me over video at the time of their choosing, where we can talk about any topics that are of interest to you, whether it's travel, storytelling, a career in travel media, or the weather, I'll look forward to connecting with you. Be sure to submit your review by Wednesday, October 11th, and we'll announce the winner on Thursday, October 12th.

This episode and the entire season of the show is brought to you by Visit Jordan. Visit myjordanjourney. com to learn more about this beautiful country in the Middle East. That's myjordanjourney. com. All right, now let's get started with our conversation with Ahmad Maraye from Rum Planet Camp.

Welcome, Ahmad, to the podcast. I'm so so excited to welcome you today.

[00:04:50] AM: Thank you Yulia. Thank you. I'm happy to be with you tonight.

Me too. It's been so long, right? We were just talking about before we started recording how I miss you guys, and I can't wait to see you. You know that we miss you here as well and you know, this is your home. Whenever you decide to run away from your work, you know you have a place here to come.

[00:05:12] YD: You, you guys listening right now, I don't think I've shared this, this before on the podcast, but every time I come to Wadi Rum, which, you know, Wadi Rum is my favorite place on earth. I talk about it all the time, but every time I come, I stay with Ahmad and his friends at the camp. And. Every time, I am so close to never returning.

I am so close to just staying there. Last time I came, I even started looking into perhaps buying some land, doing something like that because that place just calls me so much and it's, a great honor. to know you guys, to be your friend, and to have been able to stay there, so many times.

So thank you. I'm so glad to

talk to you.

[00:05:54] AM: I have told you this before, that you don't have to buy a land to be here, you know, 'cause you'll be with, with your family here whenever you come.

[00:06:02] YD: Thank you. Thank you, my friend. So tell us a little bit about yourself, what is your name, and, where are you at the moment?

[00:06:11] AM: Yeah. My name is Ahmed Mariah, and, I'm a big guy from desert. Um, right now I'm at our family camp. It's Rum Planet Camp.

[00:06:23] YD: The best,

[00:06:23] AM: yeah, I'm happy to, you know, to think so. Yeah. you know, because,in this place, we always welcome our guests from all around the world, from different backgrounds, different nationalities. you know, this is... You know, that's what makes it exciting, you know, to share our culture with people from different cultures.

And sometimes we have a really nice discussion about the differences between the cultures and, how's, you know, our life compared to other people's life in different parts of the world.

[00:06:59] YD: So tell me about that. What is the Bedouin culture like? What is the Bedouin life like? I think that's, that's one of the reasons why so many people come to your camp because they get a glimpse of how you guys live. And I think this is something that we are seeking in modern life to have something that you guys have, something that perhaps some of us have lost in other places.

But, tell me, tell me, what do you think Bedouin culture is like? What is Bedouin life like?

[00:07:29] AM: between people, they are welcoming people, you know, in our culture, we always welcome our guests. We are like always open our home welcome people from all around the world. That would make it also nice for the people that they coming. here and they like it because they find nice people.

They meet them with a very nice smile. They open their home to them. They share the story, the stories with them. So in general, our culture as a Bedouins, we are, a welcoming people. That's the first point. And, that's why we, when we started this camp, we focused about like showing our identity as a Bedouins.

Every single details in, in our camp,in Waam, we, we know, we put a stamp, belong to us. we don't have only to talk to people so they can like, be connected with our culture. Even if they just sit by themselves, if they look around everything around them, it makes them feel that.

they are connected with the area, they are connected with the, with the people.

[00:08:30] YD: what is an example of that in your camp that guests can sit around and feel like they're connected? What would be an example of that?

[00:08:38] AM: you mean for the people that are becoming here and they are, yeah. I think you yourself, you were just talking. Few minutes ago. That's how you are really missing this place. And sometimes you have those thoughts by staying here. And, you know, maybe not leaving this area anymore. It's not just only because of the land.

It's because of the people that they're staying here. every single person leave their home. Or their place, their work, and put their time, to come to us and to be with us. That means a lot to us. So, their time, for us, we want to make it value for them.

That's why, when, from the moment that they come to the, to Adram until the moment that they leave, we're trying to fulfill. all their time by something new and something make difference in their life. not because I'm a big one and I belong to this area, but I can tell you that we have a very rich culture and there's a lot of positive things from our culture.

that's why we really fought. trying to, to give this influence the good influence from our culture to the others, to the other people. So, for example, the people really stressed from, you know, from their work or from their, from their life in general. So here, when they come, we try to let them pause a little bit, you know, stop for a moment.

I think for a moment just, you know, go with the flu. take it easy, not like, just themself. more than that. more than, it's needed. So when they come here,they feel the peace from the area that we have. it's a very quiet, camp, very quiet area. from all, let's say, all last years that we have been working with tourism, you know, it made us also give us a very good experience by understanding people.

That's why when we talk to them, we, you know, we know how to get them relieved from everything that they have. for example, when, when they come to the To our camp,we, ourselves as Bedouins, welcome them personally, and, uh, we sit with them, we talk to them, we share,everything about our culture with them. The concept of camp here, uh, we made it, uh, very detailed. like, for example, the mattresses that the cushions that box that showed to the guests all belong to this area. So they can like, they know more about our culture.

[00:11:02] YD: can attest to the special feeling that you get when you, come to Rum Planet Camp from the first time that I stayed with you guys. I noticed how really you, you make everyone feel at home. And you make everyone feel so welcomed there, and it's really special and, and I see how so many people are just, when they first come to your camp, they keep coming back again and again.

A lot of times it's like repeat guests, which is amazing. You know, they, they see how special this camp is and how you guys really go out of your way to make us feel welcomed. And like you said, make us feel like we're a part. Perhaps for a little bit, we're a part of, this area and, you know, we get a glimpse into how you live.

We get a glimpse into your culture and it's, it's really beautiful.

I want to ask you actually, can you tell people a little bit about where you're at? So you're in Wadi Rum. What is Wadi Rum and, what does it mean to you as a Bedouin man?

[00:12:03] AM: Yeah. Wadi Rum area, it's one of the best places in Middle East.

[00:12:08] YD: I agree. Thank

[00:12:10] AM: And, it, it's in Jordan. It's located in Jordan. And it's one of the, like, important touristic places in Jordan. I think it's the second after Petra. It's an attractive place for the visitors from all around the world. the people who live here, it's the big ones.

since hundreds of years that they used to live in this desert. So, since, let's say Maybe 30 years because of the media, the internet, people start to know more about what they're on desert and, you know, they start to come to see this, this beautiful part of the world, this area.

When you come to this desert, you'll feel like you are not on Earth. It looks like you are on another planet. Because of the nature of the mountains and the dunes, the different colors of the dunes, that's one of the reasons made it an attractive place for the filmmakers and the photographers. , there's many Hollywood and movies has been filmed recently, in Madam Area.

For example, like The Martian by Madam on 2015 Alladin by Smith 2016, and also Star Wars episode nine. June,many, 20 series from like, they produced it, almost like every year. This is, make it also known more for the globe. And, people start to come and to see this area how it's,you know, look like.

And, since 1998, it's became,natural reserve. And the size of this area is 720 square kilometers. So it's covered, like a very large area, we have like, a part of this area, let's say, announced and focused for like, normal tours that people, visitors that they can come and do the tours and activities that,in this,desert.

And some... other part of the area. It's, still like a pure area. It's, there's not many camps, you know, just like more away from people movement.

[00:14:07] YD: Yeah. Okay. Hold on. There's so many questions I want to ask you now, but one of them is, I remember you, you showed me, once you had a photo with Matt Damon, when they came and filmed over there. What is he like in person?

[00:14:21] AM: He is a very good person. I like him. You know, before he came, you know, I met him and he's a famous actor, and, I think,You know, I like him as a, as an actor and as a person when after I met him. it was a very good chance for me to meet with him. When he came here, 15.

[00:14:37] YD: Amazing. Like you said, it's become really, the desert of Wadi Rum has become more, famous, more popular around the world, because of the internet, because of the media, because of all these movies and, things that you've, that you've mentioned.

But I'm curious,what was it like growing up in a place like that?

I mean, if this is your backyard. what was that like? I think that's so fascinating that you grow up in such a beautiful place.

[00:15:03] AM: to be honest with you, I didn't realize as how beautiful,

area and the culture I'm, I have been born and raised in this desert after I met people from other cultures because sometimes, value the things that you have. until you compare it or until you face, like, let's say, a different situation.

So for me, I have born and I raised, in this desert, like I'm a Bedouin child from this area. I belong, helping the family, running after the animals. yeah, it's, my childhood was more connected with the desert and with, With the area, because also, when I was a child, we didn't have many distractive, things like today, like the internet today that everybody has, the mobiles was not available at that time.

[00:15:54] YD: Mm

[00:15:55] AM: and after I grew up,after, you know, more people start to come to the room, I start to do. Let's say the first, in the beginning, I start to do the Jeep tours with them to guide them to the desert to show them beautiful locations here. Then it starts to be like more exciting because every time you meet new people.

And they ask you things that sometimes you don't know that's, it's really nice things that you have or they have.

But they ask about you, about your life, and then you start to answer. and, you understand that, you really, you have many beautiful things in your life.

so it makes you like your life even more.

So that's the beginning. year after year, I start to make many friendship all around the world. So, I think if I go anywhere, I will have friends.

That's a blessing.

[00:16:49] YD: What inspires me every time that I come to see you guys, don't get me wrong, like I see how hard you work also, by the way, let's acknowledge that fact, especially if it's high season, which, in the desert means the months of, let's say, March, April, and let's say October, right?

That's when a lot of people come to Jordan because it's a nice climate, nice weather at that time. and. When I come to the camp in that point of the year, I see how hard you guys work. You are very busy, as well, but I think what is really inspiring for me is that even so you're very busy, even so you're also always on your phones when you're busy, you're taking phone calls, you're taking, you know, new reservations and all of that.

You just have to step one step and you are in this incredible setting. Absolutely incredible, absolutely awe inspiring. If I can describe Wadi Rum for you guys, it is a vastness of golden light, beautiful light. The sun is everywhere, the air is so... You know, there's so much air, there's so much vastness, there's mountains all around you.

Granite, limestone, beautiful shades of brown and red. There is sand dunes as far as the eye can see. And you just breathe differently when you're over there. You're not cramped. You're not in some small, you know, location. And I think that's why, even though you're also busy and stressed sometimes, like, I don't want to over romanticize this, right?

I don't want to say, Oh my God, you guys, life is perfect. And everything like that. But I think because of that, because you are in the setting from my perhaps biased perspective. There's something different about how you carry yourself, how you show up in the world as the Bedouin people that I've met so far, as the friends that I have in this community.

There is a calmness about you, there is something about you that's, you know, because of the years of living in that environment, it's different about you, you know, does that make sense what I'm saying? Does it resonate

[00:18:58] AM: Yes, true. Everything you said. It's right there. Life in the desert. It's not easy. In general, it's really hard life. But what make it easy for people that maybe because of the environment that we have here, the influence of the nature on us, it's make it make us really stand and, you know, let's say, enjoy what we are doing. I think this is what one of the things that maybe a few days ago I have I said the same thing to one of our of my friends that maybe, especially during the high season, from the stress of the reservations, the work that we have here with tourism, if I would have the same, let's say, pressure from work, maybe in another place, another location, maybe I won't, I can't handle it, but because I'm, I'm high, you know, all this pressure, like being here in the desert, that would make us, as you said, we just, you know, enjoy it because, we had the good influence from the nature. This is the same thing happened with Bedouins who are living in the desert since a long time ago. The Bedouin with their family taking care of the say taking care of the family as well. It's not easy for, like, for the family to do it, but what makes them like it because, they have the calmness and the peace of the desert.

That's what makes them, really take it in good way.

[00:20:30] YD: Yeah. Oh my God. I need to go soon. I need to go soon. It's been too long. It's been too long. Last time I was there was this May and it's too long. I need to come back.

[00:20:40] AM: If you... You realize something that we were always talking about the people and the nature, like, because both are important. You can't, like, have the nature without the people, and you can't really focus on the people and forget about the nature.

[00:20:55] YD: hmm.

[00:20:56] AM: That's why it's our duty, as, locals to take care of our nature and our deserts. when you come to Rum Planet Camp, you will be in a sustainable camp and an eco camp. Because we, we decide, to save our nature and like to protect the world. Nature. That's why we start, we, we decided to be sustainable camp. it took us a long time, many years, many steps. To reach the point to be 100% sustainable camp by not using anything harming our nature.

The last thing that we have done starting from this year. we stopped using in plastic at all at the camp. we found the result of this By, you know, the compliments from our guests that we have. And also, let's say the trash that we take out from the camp, we reduce it like about 40%.

[00:21:51] YD: Wow.

[00:21:51] AM: Yeah. So it's, it's, something really, really good to have it. So sustainable camp, that means, we use, solar power. We don't use generators. We use isolation system to, you know, to protect,from the desert heat or desert cold in wintertime. everything, even the food, the food is also, uh, 85 percent of, from the food that we produce here, it's local, food.

It's from, local products. We also, we start, you know, using wood, we use it again,

[00:22:26] YD: hmm. Mm hmm.

[00:22:27] AM: like, for the tables, for example. The, the cushions that we have here, it's handmade from the Bedouin woman. By the way, the Bedouin woman is part of, of our work here. They are like, the connected, with our work and they support us,we have also some programs, with them, related to the food.

We have some special meals, They make it for the guests and sometimes you have in classes. So the guests that they can come and try to to experience some kind of foods that we produce here. Yeah, so this is some of the things that we offer here at the camp and we do.

[00:23:05] YD: I'm so glad that you brought this up because this was going to be, to be a big part of our discussion today because as we mentioned earlier, tourism to Wadi Rum started, about 30 years ago and it grew year over year. It's, it's been growing. The desert is becoming more popular. The desert is also becoming more crowded.

You can see more people in the desert now visiting. You can see more camps also in the desert, right? I also want to say that for people who are coming to Wadi Rum, it's really important to research which camp you're staying because your experience in different camps is going to be different. Some camps are really, geared towards a lot of traffic, you know, that can be your experience that you are staying in a very big camp.

that has a lot of people in it and you're not gonna feel that personal touch. Some camps are really geared towards those Instagram shots of those bubbles. You guys know what I'm talking about. We're gonna link to some of, some of these pictures in the show notes, but you know what I'm talking about. It's those glamp tents, those glas, glamp, Uh, bubble tents that are half plastic, half, you know, they have clear openings so you can see the, the stars through them.

But my God, how unsustainable are those, those bubbles and how harming they are actually to the environment because it takes a lot of electricity to power those up. They're plastic, they're PVC made. I'm not going to go too much into this right now, but if you're interested in learning more about this, I actually wrote a article for AFAR magazine about this exact topic and why it's important to stay in traditional Bedouin camps rather than these, plastic bubbles when you're in Wadi Rum, we're going to link to it in the show notes, but where I'm going with this is I'm curious.

how do you think has tourism. Impacted the Bedouins and the desert.

[00:25:01] AM: the impact of tourism, I think it's limited for the people who are living in Wadi Aram desert. You know, Bedouins in general, they are covering a big part of Jordan. Some Bedouins in the north, in the middle and south. But let's say about Wadi Aram desert, yes, there's impact from tourism for the, on the Bedouins life, especially the Because they grew up with tourism. they focus more about working on tourism. more than like being Really, living as a original Bedouin life. I don't know how it's gonna be after many years from now. that's why here in our camp, as a Rum Planet camp, we're really trying to keep our traditionals as a Bedouin's life lived. We are not going with, let's say, the other projects or the other camps policy of working, because, you know, everybody has his own interests and, but for us, we know our goal. We know what we are doing. We know what we want to show to the guests because, they are traveling all around the world to come for Wadi Rum Desert to see the people who are living here.

So , we should show them our life, our real life. Not like, faking anything. So, when they come, we have,we have many, different, let's say, programs that we can offer to the guests, but all of them, going to the way that to be connected with the, with the culture, with the people, with the area, starting from the Jeep tours, we take them to our roots.

they can feel the desert. They can feel the nature. the, hiking tours, for example, we take them also to,good locations. We have, very good guides with them. Like, we offer also, for example, the, the visiting Bedouin family. Some we have like different durations for those visits. There's a short visits that they can come for a couple of hours meeting with the people talking to the people and we have a longer visits that they can stay overnight with with the between family.

Yeah, sometimes we have special programs for, like, bringing, for example, some women to the camp to, you know, from the Bedouins, women that to make, for example, food for them so they can see how our life is going.

this is the way that we work here this camp,

[00:27:17] YD: It's really beautiful, and I remember we did this several times with you guys, cause, you know, for our listeners, I've brought, several groups, to Jordan, and every time, of course, we have to stay in Wadi Rum with my groups as well, and, of course we stay in Ahmad's camp, no question about it, there's no other option at all, For me, at least, in my opinion, this is the only option in Wadi Rum is, Ahmad and Rum Planet Camp.

and I remember several times we went and did exactly what you said. We went and we stayed with a, Bedouin family for lunch. remember that one we stayed at last time where we had Mansaf, and we stayed at their, at their tent and we talked about their life and how, you know, the, their kids are living in the village now, but they still, oftentimes stay in the, in the tent.

and that was really nice.

Actually, can you talk a little bit about that? Part, because I think people perhaps don't, don't understand, the difference let's say between a traditional Bedouin lifestyle and the lifestyle that's kind of encroaching more and more now, traditionally Bedouins used to live inside the desert.

Is that accurate to say that?

[00:28:27] AM: living a nomad life, like staying all their time in the, in the deserts, uh,but, now it's, it's partly nomad life, not like a fully nomad life. we have some people, especially the old generation from the Bedouins that they like to stay. in the desert, away from the village, away from the people, just, to enjoy.

their original life. the younger generation, like the their children now, they have their stone houses in the village, but they come and go to them like every, let's say, every day, every couple of days,and there's, there's a reason. behind that because, now the children need to go to school and, you know, there's a school in the village, so they need to have a place close from the school so they can, like, go and come every day.

But in the weekend, all the family become together in the deserts. Yeah.

[00:29:21] YD: And what happens then? What happens when they go to the desert on the weekend? They pitch a big tent and hang out there at the tent in the desert? Is that what happens?

[00:29:31] AM: some of them have already tents, located in, in somewhere in desert, and they go to that, tent, and they stay, like, the, the weekend there, and then come back. And,some of the Bedouins that they, now they don't have, especially in many time of the year, we don't have, we don't need the tents, they don't need.

The tents, for example, they just go, like, at camp, free camping in the desert to come back. So, being connected with the desert, it's something in our blood. So, even if we have stone houses, we have to go from time to time outside and to be more in the desert.

[00:30:08] YD: that is so beautiful. Do you think the young people feel this too and feel it as much? I'm curious, I guess, in how do younger, like you, you mentioned earlier, you don't know how this is going to look like 20, 30, 40 years from now, right? Because of course, the world is becoming smaller and we are all.

Becoming more homogenous in the way we live because we all have the same iPhone and we all have the same internet and Instagram. Right. So that's what I'm curious about to tease a little bit that idea of like, how are the young people in the desert? do they feel that connection? Do they feel it as strongly as you do?

And as your father and grandfather did, or is it different for them?

[00:30:52] AM: I think they don't understand it now, as we do, because, for me, as I told you from the beginning, that's, I have lived... The, let's say the tool through way of living,

like original living. The normal living that we have. And now with the media being connected, trying to be online all the time, you know, because of the work.

and I tell you that I miss, the old way of living, for the younger generation because they. They are born on this life, on this way of living, let's say, with the media, with the internet, with the mobiles. So it became needed. They can't like, say, get rid of it and just forget about it and like living separately from the world.

many years, I'm sure that there's a lot of things will change. To be honest with you, not only for the Bedouin culture, I think for many cultures, because this internet has connected all the world together. And, you know, they start learn and to read and sometimes to act like some other people from different cultures.

With many years, I think it will become a habit, a new habit, maybe, in the cultures. But I hope that at least the main values of the culture that they can, can keep it and they can like make it stand. So that's why we took on our shoulder as Bedouins here not to be part of this change, at least while we are living, just To show the reality of being a Bedouin.

[00:32:19] YD: What do you miss about that lifestyle the most?

[00:32:24] AM: I miss the connection between the people. We used to have, like, more connection. We used to be more together.

Not like today. Today, everybody is busy with their work. I think we are lucky to be busy at this part, at Wadi Rum, desert. Not any other parts. But in general, yeah, it's, it's, the communicating between the families was not it's not strong as it was before.

[00:32:49] YD: I agree. It's interesting to me that this is what you called out as the thing that you miss because what I observe when I come to Rum is that you guys are together more so. Than any other situations or settings or places that I've been at. And that is also very attractive to me.

So when I come, you know, and I stay at your camp and, you're, you're sitting all together. You're, you're having tea or whatever out there in the back. You know, the spot that I'm talking about out there in the back.

It's so beautiful for me to see that, you know, everybody who comes by to say hi, they come in, they sit down by, by the same table and they have tea, you are together in this way, you know, and I think for me, looking outside, see this still, it's a lot more togetherness than what I experienced, for example, here, here in Chicago.

interesting for me that you said that, you know, you're missing that togetherness. So I can imagine how much more it was

[00:33:49] AM: yes,

yes.

[00:33:50] YD: yeah, , that's really beautiful.

[00:33:52] AM: Yeah, I hope we make, like, let's say, a good influence and a positive influence on all other people here in the area to, keep our traditional life for long,

[00:34:04] YD: if you had to say it in one sentence, what is that tradition? That Bedouin tradition, if you had to like summarize it or, or explain it to somebody in one sentence, what would that,

[00:34:16] AM: in one sentence.

[00:34:17] YD: or two sentences, okay.

[00:34:18] AM: We have the best tradition. I say this because as I told you, I have friends from different parts of the world. And, I can have this discussion with people since long time. And, you know, that's why I told you that we have a rich culture, but we need to focus about the good things in our culture.

I can't like really summarize it in just only one sentence, but it's,

[00:34:44] YD: it's focused on family, it's focused on being connected to nature, like you said, it's very hospitable, it values being together, right? These are some of the things that I've noticed over the years that are... Really attractive to me as an outsider. you know,

what would you say are some perhaps, you know, in your years of working with travelers, have you come across any stereotypes or any misconceptions that people have when they come to Jordan when they come to this part of the world and how do you, , what would you wanna say to that?

Mm-hmm.

[00:35:24] AM: Yeah. most of the moss conceptions that we have, or I faced, that's, people that they already have about us Goodwins or about Arab, about or about Muslims. You know, we are, we as a, bad ones, we all Muslims. And, it's, it's something,they have heard from the media.

About, let's say, being a Muslim or being from Middle East, that means you are like, it's not a safe, place, not,good people. and they think that we are,especially when it comes to the woman topic that,we took a woman as, as a slaves or as, somebody that we don't respect women, but this is wrong.

This is totally wrong. That's the first thing that they learn when they come here that, they know the value of our culture. They know the value of our religion. How do we respect how we are welcoming people? They feel it because the first people that we connected to themselves, they feel it in themselves.

That's how we deal with them. So If they have any, let's say, difficulties, if they face any problems, we are willing to help them without asking anything in return. This is in our culture. we give them the fair, like, the most welcome and the most care that we can do because they are our guests and they are, this is from our culture.

we respect the women that they come. We don't judge them depending on what, how they look or how they wear, because we understand that they're coming from a different background, so we don't judge them depending on that, and this is coming from our culture and our religion, that we don't judge people depending on how do they look like. And we don't have to force them to think what we think, or to agree with what we, believe, let's say. in our culture as, as Bedouins, we have, a very high,position for the woman, for us, the woman is, it means the family, the woman, it means the person who connect all the family together, the woman, it's the one who, who took care of the men from the beginning when they are little children until they grow up, the woman, they always supporting them, supporting, the men.

So, even in our troubles, when they have problems between the families, they don't involve women in that. because they know they have respect for the woman. when, the Bedouins used to, when they want to show they're proud, they name themselves by their sister's name. In the past, let's say, they say, I'm a brother of, that's, you know, they name their sister. that means that they are proud. of their sister, of the woman. So, I have brothers and I have sisters. if my brother ask me something, maybe I don't answer, like, let's say, answer him immediately. But if one of my sisters called me, then it's amazing. I have to answer immediately. So. That's how it's kind of how it's, it's happened here.

[00:38:21] YD: I love that. I love that so much.

[00:38:23] AM: Yeah, this is mainly those things that people maybe they don't know about it until they come and they see how we live. And I have this question from friends and from visitors how do you think that Bedouin woman is happy? Or a Muslim woman is happy with, with her life.

I tell him, maybe I'm, I'm the wrong person that you ask. If you want to ask this, you, then you should ask the woman, not me. Because for me as a man, I can't tell you about my feeling as a man. Maybe I tell you that how I see that, the feel, but I can't tell you 100%. That's why we welcome them, like the woman to come and visit us and with, with our family.

So when they come, they can talk to the, to the woman and they can like, ask them directly to see how they are living, or do they like their life or not.

[00:39:14] YD: I love this so much because this is exactly the kinds of conversations we have, in your camp when I come and stay and not just me, right? Like you said, this is the conversations that you have with all of your guests who are interested in these kinds of conversations. And I think that is just so beautiful because that's how we're going to increase the, common level of understanding in the world.

Common level of appreciation for different people, different places around the world. And I think for me. That's one of the reasons why I connected with you so much from the beginning, because I feel like we have very shared, vision or mission even, because what you guys are trying to do with your work in, in your camp is very similar to what I'm trying to do with my work when I bring people to Jordan.

It's very similar, you know, because for me, it started from that same realization that when I first went to Jordan, I had so many questions from people that were just frankly saying, Oh my God, isn't that dangerous? You're in the Middle East, you know, and ever since then, like the work that I've been doing, it's been to address that, I think that's one of the reasons why we connected in the beginning.

[00:40:27] AM: Yeah. You are traveling to different parts of the world. You're crossing like literally a really big distance to come to Wadi Rum Desert. Then I think it's really worth to have a chance to meet the people and to talk about the people to know. Because if you're just coming to have a, let's say, a fancy place to stay and just sleep and listen to music and then just go, then you'll miss a lot.

Why are you even traveling? You know? you need, you know, to see something different. You need to change something in you. And I think this is why we, I'm also encouraging people not only about, for what they're on about any other part to travel. To see, not to just only to rely on what we hear in the media, because sometimes the media can like, let's say direct the people understanding and thoughts to one direction and let them forget or like about the good things on the cultures.

[00:41:25] YD: absolutely. Thank

[00:41:27] AM: people, when they come here to Wadi Rum, we meet them at Rum Planet Camp and we, try to, to show them the real identity of being, of being a Bedouin.

[00:41:35] YD: I love that. I love that so much. well, we're going to start wrapping up here because I could talk to you forever, but you need to go. It's late there in Jordan right now. And, the camp is winding down. By the way, we're, we're having this conversation with you At the camp, at the moments, in one of my favorite spots at the camp, actually the communal space where everybody gathers for dinners at colder times of year.

And like I said, I. can't wait to be back there again, very, very soon and, I miss you guys. What would you say, as we're wrapping up here, what would you want someone who's never been to Jordan, who's never been to Wadi Rum, what would you want them to know, or what would you like to tell them, as we're finishing our conversation today?

[00:42:24] AM: I would tell them that Jordan is one of places on earth travel. We have very beautiful area. And

Wadi Rum is also one of them. The best places in the world are that and,people here is, very friendly, very good people. So, you can just, like, pick a nice time, a good time for you to come and visit us here. Yeah, it's really worth to be here. It's really worth.

[00:42:57] YD: That's

beautiful.

And I couldn't agree more with you, Ahmad, and for our listeners, if you do go to Jordan, and if you do come to Wadi Rum, which you absolutely should, I hope you understand by now that the only place to stay in Wadi Rum is Rum Planet Camp. My friend, my friend. Fala and my friend Hassan are going to take such good care of you guys and, definitely do check them out.

We're going to link to Ram Planet Camp in our show notes, so you can follow them on Instagram. You can check out their website. and I hope you get to see for yourself what we've been talking about here. The beauty of Wadi Ram, the desert, the vastness, the stillness of the desert. The beauty of the people, the hospitality, the kindness, the conversations that you can have.

I really hope that for our listeners that you get to experience that for yourself in person, because that is the most powerful experience you can have. Thank you so much, Ahmad. Much love to

you.

[00:44:00] AM: Thank you so much. Thank you, Julia. It was, you know, it has been a great pleasure to be with you here. And,I hope to see you soon, inshallah.

Yeah, I know that you are like always busy, but you have to take some time for yourself.

[00:44:14] YD: Inshallah. I'm always busy, but I have a place in my heart for Wadi Rum that's never going to take anyone. No, no other place is going to take it. So I really hope that sometime soon I can come and spend some time with you guys. Thank you,

[00:44:27] AM: You're welcome.

[00:44:27] YD: Thank you so much for listening to our podcast today. We're celebrating our 100th episode and inviting you to leave us a rating or review on Apple podcasts and Spotify. If you do it by Wednesday, October 11th. And tag us on social media at InSearchOfPerfect and at Travel Media Lab. You have the chance to win a 20 minute coffee conversation with me.

Submit your review of our podcast on Apple podcast or Spotify, share a screenshot of your submission on social media, and be sure to tag us. And we'll choose a winner in seven days. The winner will get a one on one coffee chat with me over video at the time of their choosing, where we will talk about any topics that are of interest to you.

Travel, storytelling, maybe a pitch that you want me to look at, a career in travel media, or the weather. I look forward to connecting with you. Our lovely theme music this season, Abbad El Shams, is provided by Rowan Roshni, a Palestinian Balkan singer based in Jordan who experiments across genres.

Our partner this season is Visit Jordan. My name is Yulia Denisyuk and I will see you next week. Take care and safe travels.