S3 E28: It’s Not Too Late with travel photographer Marion Payr

Get the show’s transcript:

Marion: [00:00:00] I'm still learning, you know, with each job I do. I learn. What I'm really good at what I really love and what stresses me out or what I struggle with.

So  I don't think the learning curve ever, ever stops, but it, requires one thing at least is to say Yes,

to these things, to these opportunities and you have to do things, even if you're not sure you're going to like it maybe upfront, or you're not sure yet. Are able to do it.

You're not confident 1%, but you need to take the leap of faith to get where you want to go  step by step.  

 Yulia: [00:00:31] Welcome to the genius women podcast.  I'm your host, Yulia, Dennis yuck and award winning travel photographer and writer  with work in some incredible publications like  national geographic  farm magazine and more.  And this year  you see my name in places like   Conde Nast traveler.  I'm on a mission to help other women who wants to grow their trouble, storytelling, careers, go after their dreams  while feeling supported, worthy, and bold. If you're ready to ditch your fear and doubts to the side,  step into your brilliance and take action on your dreams. You're in the right place. Let's go.

 Marianna Pyre, AKA lady venom is an Austrian travel photographer with a passion for wildlife.  At the beginning of this year, Marianna traveled to Kenya to learn how the pandemic has affected the tourism industry and conservation efforts.  Marianna is one of the co-founders of prints for wildlife, a print fundraiser that raised over $660,000  for conservation in 2020.

And is back this summer.  One of her main goals is to represent more female wildlife photographers in this year's fundraiser.  Marianne also recently announced her new partnership with Mercedes-Benz Austria, where she is now the official she's Mercedes ambassador for the.  I've been following Marie on, on Instagram for what seems like a very long time.

And I've been a fan of her,  her work and her philosophy for awhile.  That's why it's a great pleasure to welcome Mario onto our podcast today and have this conversation. You're about to hear,  we laugh a lot. We learn the story behind Maryanne's Instagram handle,  and we realized that we're both Scorpios by side.

 We also talk about looking forward to aging prejudice at work, women who are not afraid to change it all and being the welder of your own happiness.  Trust me. It's going to make sense once you hear our conversation.  All right, let's get into it. I can't wait to get started.

Yulia: [00:02:40] Welcome Larry, on very excited  do this with you today and very excited to have you on their podcast. as you know, I think I've told you this, that I've, been a fan of yours and your work for, for a long time. And I'm very honored to have you on our podcast 

Marion: [00:02:56] Thank you so much, Julia, thank you for having me. And I can only, you know, return all those kind words, super impressed with everything you're doing and genius women is such an incredible project, empowering ethics, so many females or female identifying people all around the globe. So I'm excited to, to be here and talk to you about our journeys and see where it takes us. 

 Yulia: [00:03:18] Awesome. Me too.  So before we get into the journeys I wanted to talk a little bit about  one of your favorite images that you shared with me before we got on today. And I know you told me this is a hard question because there can be an, I, I know it's hard for me to choose just one, two.

But I love I love that you chose this one. It's so stunning. It's just such an amazing image. And I wonder  what is it about this image that you love 

so much? 

  Marion: [00:03:48] it's always it's if people ask you what your favorite destination is, where you want to travel, you know, what is the number one country where you're finessing the most impossible question? And it's the same, it's the same with my photos. But the one that I selected is also the background on my  screen background, so that.

Kind of says that I do like it, 

it has some story to it and it evokes some emotion for me. And Of course.

I've been there. So I don't know if it does the same thing to people who have not been there themselves. But to describe the moment for you, we've been on a safari. In Sambia and Botswana, and this is two weeks into the trip.

And you know, some game drives are very successful and artists are not so successful. And sometimes you just wait for animals to appear and nothing happens. And sometimes something happens. And this particular evening we arrived at  a new lodge. So we were just checking in and the launch.

Basically said, okay, you have two options, either use check in now and you're relaxed and you go to your room or you can hop on a game drive right now. And obviously I chose to leave.  which resulted in me having to be driven to the game draft that had already started. So they put me in another vehicle, they drove me out to the Bush to connect with the group that had already gone out.

So we were chasing them somewhere in the bushes, in the Okavango Delta, actually. And when I joined them, they were like a bit annoyed because they had to wait for me. And the mood was not ideal. Let's just put it that way. And then nothing happened. Really. We were waiting around, we didn't see a lot of animals and the sun started setting and we were basically giving up and be like, okay, let's just have, you know, sundowner drinks and go back to the lunch.

And all of a sudden it was like a herd of buffaloes in the background. All of a sudden all the Buffalo started, you know, running and you saw the dust coming off the ground. 

 Yulia: [00:05:33] Oh, so that's what, that's what that is in the image. Cause I thought it was fog or something, 

but this is dust from the 

Buffalo. 

Marion: [00:05:40] it was, heavy drought that, that year. So it was all covered in industry Okavango, Delta, you know, usually you go on on boats, safaris. There was in that year. No. Unfortunately, no way to go on boats because it was so dry. So yeah, from all the who's of the Buffalo. the sand was covering the air and then we saw why they were running away.

And it was a group of lions chasing and hunting the buffaloes. So we followed them for two hours and until it was already dark and you know, the photo is grainy and it's not perfect and it's not sharp and it's not 100% crystal clear, but it just tells the story of. How do these hunts go? And I, I didn't know that before that this is a very slow process.

It's not like the lions attack, you know, from a Bush and they capture one of the buffaloes and then that's it, but it takes hours and hours and they stop in between and you know, the will start grazing again and the lines just lay down on the floor and they look at each other. 

And that's one of those moments.

I step off lists looking at the lion, the lion, looking at the buffaloes and just silence and us in the, in the vehicle, just marveling at the scene. And it was incredible. 

Yulia: [00:06:48]  It's absolutely incredible. And we'll link to it  in the show notes. So for listeners, definitely go check it out. It's it's an incredible image. And for me, when I look at it, you know, what I see in this image, it's it sort of represents to me. The honesty that we see in the natural world, you know, the, this honest moment,  the lion, this the Buffalo are looking at each other and they both know what's going on.

And I don't 

know, it's 

it's so 

Marion: [00:07:13] It's very raw emotion there. And you can tell that, you know, the Buffalo is D they have a strategy to protect the young ones and elderly ones. So they would form a circle. And then, you know, the bigger bulls would stand outside of the circle. And it's, all, it's not by coincidence that that one bull is particularly looking at the lioness.

But yeah, it's, it can be brutal as well. But it is very honest. I said, that's what it is. I think a lot of people, like first time, safari goers can be quite shocked by the brutality of the hunting and the Achille 

Yulia: [00:07:44]   What do you love about this work? Because  you do a lot of different things. You are a Instagram concentrate, or you're a travel blogger, or you have your own amazing blog. You're a wildlife photographer and we'll get into all of that. But specifically about, you know, your wildlife work, what is it that you love about it?

Is it that honesty though? We just talked about that rawness. 

Marion: [00:08:04] funny that you ask, because it was nothing that I had planned, you know, I there's a lot of people who have either a connection for their parents or they live in a country where they, you know, they had colonial ties to some of the African countries, but safaris for, for people in Austria are not something that is very commonly done as a vacation.

So. If you ask people in Austria for the bucket list, it will be, you know, city trips in Europe or going to us or Skiing.

or backpacking, stuff like that. But rarely will it be African safaris. And for me it was the same. So I hadn't planned this thing. It just happened by chance. I went on my first safari in 2018 in Namibia and there's no.

Way to describe the emotions and the immersion into nature and how it feels. And I don't know why it is like that. There is no, there's no rational explanation for me, but it feels like home. It feels like you arrive there and you are, you're done. And you're like, okay, I'm not going back. So, sorry.

Yulia: [00:09:06] I love that you said it this way because Marianne, this is exactly how I describe my feelings. When I go to Jordan, I'm like I'm home. This is home. I feel like I'm home. So I understand what you're talking about. That emotion that it's irrational, right? It doesn't make sense, actually. 

I mean, this is your home like this, isn't your first time being here, 

Marion: [00:09:25] I mean, it do say, I don't know, it's also like a myth possibly that you know, all of us, all 8 billion people on planet earth, go back to what 10,000 people from, from Eastern Africa. so it's kind of the cradle of humankind and there. You know, I'm not from Africa, obviously, and also the generations before me aren't but many, many, many generations before we all go back there and there is some sort of tie that we still have, maybe it's irrational, but maybe there is something scientifically proven about that as Well,

Who knows what happened in Jordan? There must be something there as Well, 

 Yulia: [00:10:00] Well, you know, if we want to go into that that's territory, I. I am not a religious person. but I am very mystical and spiritual and I feel certain ways in certain places and in a lot of the places that draw me, one of the Mr. And the other one of them is Istanbul. First time I set food in that place, I feel like I've been here before.

In some prior lives in some prior worlds or something. And of course, it's very difficult to explain that it's it doesn't make any sense, but that's how I feel. And it's a very strong 

Marion: [00:10:32] there must be some parallel universe or something where you live in Istanbul and Jordan, who knows? 

 Yulia: [00:10:38] something it has to be, it has to be So, in one of the interviews that you've had you've been named Austria's travel, blogging, Instagram pioneer. Which sounds super amazing and impressive. And you've also collaborated with different brands. Like Mercedes-Benz like Nikon, you work with luxury hotels with, you know, safari camps in Africa.

Like your resume is super impressive.  did you always know that you wanted to be a creator and to work in this creative industry or. Was it more calculated or was it randomly, I guess by question. And  what were your dreams when you were growing up when you were a 

Marion: [00:11:17] actually, I don't remember. I had a childhood vision of what I would become. The only thing I remember is that I would record a fairy tales for my little brothers. I would make up fairytales. So maybe, you know, being a storyteller in kind of a way he was already there as a dream later. I probably found out that there's no job like that in the real world.  I signed up to study journalism and I kind of got distracted on the way let's put it that way by Instagram. 

 So I actually considered myself to not be creative, at all.

I fought. I had lost it with my childhood and I was at a point where like, okay. Even during studying, I switched my  specialization. I switched from journalism to media management, 

which is more of the, the business side of of media. 

Because I thought this would more fit my current

mindset.

I was more into marketing and more into selling and the business side of things. And then a fault I'm not creative at all. until I signed up on Instagram in 2011. So that interview that you quoted, that's kind of true for us. That's true. I was among the first in Austria, you know, Instagram came into being in 2010 and I signed up early 2011. So.

I was very early on, in very active as well. So I used it obsessively. I have to say,  this is what, kick-started everything I didn't. Do you want to take photos until then? I didn't have a camera. I had no.

idea that this could be a path for me, and it all unfolded very, very organically from that. 

Yulia: [00:12:45]   That's amazing. And something that you said there is something that I hear and I see a lot as well. And that's why conversations like this are so exciting to me that. Gosh, what happens to us when we grow up? Like we have all these things that we do as kids, right? And by the way, we need to  swap our fairytales writings, because I 

used to do that too. When I was little. I do I do, I do  they're not here. They're somewhere in like my mom's files or something, you know, but I remember these like little green notebooks that I had. but like what happens to us when we grow up, we lose all of that. Right. We lose and we're like, oh, I need to get a real job.

I need to get something sensible, something that 

Marion: [00:13:24] it's insane. And also, I think there's a phase where you lose, you know, your how is it called in English, your knowledge of what you're able to yourself and your 

confidence somehow,  

Yulia: [00:13:35] Yes. Because the world tells us from all the directions, it's the stars telling us, no, this is not for you. You don't sit in here. You you're not good enough for that. Right. And, and when we're kids, we, I don't know. don't listen to that, I guess, or where, like we just have our own. 

 Marion: [00:13:50] and also, I mean, I'm a little older, so there was no social media that all these things were not existing back then. So there were only very traditional paths you could take to become a creator. so you would have to be able, you would have to be employed by a media outlet or some newspaper or whatever.

So it was more restricted in, in those ways. So, and I knew I didn't fit in there cause I, you know, I didn't even read the newspaper myself. I read magazines and I was like, yeah, I'm going. Maybe I can go, you know, be writing for This and that magazine. That would be incredible. But  obviously lacking connections like in the network and the confidence I chose another path. And now there's a lot more on offer, which I think is it's amazing on the one hand, because it gives a lot more options and a lot more flexibility in the paths you can choose.  But also I think it can be quite overwhelming for young people to choose amongst, you know, all these different options. so it took me, at least me personally took awhile.

I was well into my thirties until I, you know, finally quit my job and chose the path that I'm 

on now. So it's never too late. That's, that's the main takeaway, right? It's never too late. You can be in your thirties and you can 

change careers. And my mom did that.

in her forties in a different time period as well.

So  It's never too late. If you find what you're passionate about. And I think this is for me, this was the bigger struggle. Just kids, you know, they're passionate about music. They know exactly what it is they love but I didn't have that. I had to dig my way deeper to, to find that.

Yulia: [00:15:19] Yeah. And I think the way or a way, not the way, but a way to, or is that is trying a lot of different things and we have this sort of idealized vision. Or just one day I'm walking down the street and all of a sudden my passion strikes me and I figured it out and I know what I want to do with my life, but it doesn't really happen like that.

Right. It's really like trying a lot of different things and seeing what 

Marion: [00:15:44] I mean, even within photography, you. know, there's so many niches and so many different paths to take. And then even within the niche of travel photography, again, so many different options and paths, and I'm still learning, you know, with each job I do. I learn. What I'm really good at what I really love and what stresses me out or what I struggle with.

So it's, I don't think the learning curve ever, ever stops, but it, as you said, it requires one thing at least is to say Yes,

to these things, to these opportunities and you have to do things, even if you, you know, you're not sure you're going to like it maybe upfront, or you're not sure yet. Are able to do it.

You're not confident 1%, but you need to take the leap of faith to get where you want to go step by step. And I don't think it ever ends, unfortunately, like we will never be at that point where we're like, okay, I can lean back. I'm there. 

Yulia: [00:16:35] I'm settled now. I 

figured out. Yeah.  and I think that's also one of the reasons why I felt like we we've connected so well. Is that like that thing you talked about earlier about. Not being afraid to reinvent yourself and change things and start over and like your mom doing that in her forties, like, you know, 

I'm going to be 38 this year. And I, I am looking for models. Of women who are amazing in their forties and fifties and sixties and seventies are not afraid of aging and are reinventing themselves and even on Instagram, you know, there is one one woman I follow she's a Lebanese that lives in Canada and she's I think 55 or something.

And I don't know just the way she lives her life. You know, I want to see that. I want to see that I can. Grow into that and not say, oh, you know what, you're 45. That means you cannot do anything anymore. You're too old. 

Marion: [00:17:28]  Unfortunately, these days, I think there's a lot more role models that are also kind of attainable and are more. Close to us. And if we can see ourselves in back in when we were children, right? Our role models were maybe some pop stars, some I don't know singers, but now there's a lot more people who are more on eye level with us.

If we can look up to, or look to without app. 

 I met an incredible woman in, in, in, in Kenya. Just have to tell you real quick. Cause she's like in her late forties and she works for one of the largest that we stayed at and she she's based in the Netherlands, but because of COVID, she was like, okay, no, I'm just going to work remotely from Kenya.

I'm just going to the lodge or work from there. And she'd, you know, just pack the couple of her belongings and went there, not knowing when she will be able to go back. Of course, like that's a situation of privilege that you can do that as well. Also, you know? No, no family ties no children that she has to look after, but Yeah.

she creates her own destiny and you know, and that's 10 years from us now.

So it's looking promising. 

Yulia: [00:18:33] It is. And, and, you know, it's, it's funny recently I've noticed the shift in me that I'm looking forward to becoming that woman because before I used to be, honestly, I used to be afraid, you know, I don't have this by a certain age. I don't have a family by certain age. I don't have everything figured out.

Like there's so much pressure on us. Right. But I don't know something's changed in me that now I'm like, I can wait to see how I am when I'm 45 or 50 or 60, you know, and that's a way to like, age, right. not be afraid of it 

Marion: [00:19:03] I couldn't agree more. we're very lucky that we get to, you know, look to these things and that we are at where we are now, you know, for these so that we have found at least partially our passion and partially also what we're good at and that we can still, you know, form and evolve even further into that and dive deeper into that.

And I think. The older, I get the more narrow, the things that I want to do get, which is kind of, it is intimidating in some sort of way, because I know much more what I don't want to do anymore that it's like, it's getting less and less opportunities there, but they are much more fulfilling. So it's a narrow, but it's it's my path.

It's a very individual path, but it's, it just fits me like a glove. 

Yulia: [00:19:45] Yeah. And I think that's really the journey of life is figuring out what those things are and following them and yeah. Oh, that's, that's awesome. That's, that's really awesome.  Well, before we get into some of the other things that I wanted to ask you I've always wanted to ask you this question and I'm so glad that I now have the opportunity to do that, but. Tell me, what is the story behind lady venom, your Instagram handle? I love that handle so much. And in my mind I've created stories that it's about, oh, she's this? I don't know. She's this beautiful snake or she's the Scorpio that goes through the desert. There's venom in it, but I don't know. Maybe I'm completely wrong here.

So tell us, 

Marion: [00:20:24] I love those images. You know, I've been struggling with that name actually, because when I signed up on Instagram, this. was not a career move, but it was me privately signing up and just using that same username that I had to do before on all the other platforms. So on Facebook and on Napster and ICQ and things that young people don't know anymore. 

So I was actually thinking about changing it, but it goes back very simply to a song. So I was very much into, into hip hop. So imagine me with baggy pants, skater shoe was the whole drill. That was me in my younger days. And it's a song title of a band called swollen members. Song is called lady venom, but I chose that specific song because there is a dancer in that song and she has a Scorpio tale, and I'm a Scorpio 

  we have some venom in us probably sometimes. So I did identify with, with her in some ways that is my personal connection to that song. And I still, I stand by that song. I still like it. Even though I don't listen to hip 

hop so much anymore. 

 Yulia: [00:21:25] Gotcha.  I'll have to find that, that song and 

listen to it now.  I relate to that a lot actually, because my own handle in search of perfect  actually for me, it was a translation from a Russian phrase and you could translate it either in search of perfect, but also in search of beauty.

 actually more about the beauty than perfection. And I struggled with that so much because I'm actually all about not being perfect and how that's so hard on women 

to be 

Marion: [00:21:51] I see. Right? Yeah. So you are 

struggling with your own in your username, basically. Yeah. I get that. 

Yulia: [00:21:57] exactly the same. Exactly. Yeah. But also I've had it for so long now and 

people sort of 

Marion: [00:22:03] same for me. And no one knows my real name. So it's like, I'm stuck in that, but yeah, at some point we might change that. At least with me, it's like that. If I meet people who have never seen my Instagram account or whatever, they sometimes have very weird associations. So they're like, oh, right. So 

what do you do back in your day?

Seller in Austria, you know, 

Yulia: [00:22:24] catch my in and put them up on the 

Marion: [00:22:26] that's more the idea that they have. So I do prefer the images you have in your hands. 

Yulia: [00:22:31]  Funny. I didn't get that impression at all, but no, for me, it was just intriguing. You know, it was very intriguing. so good to know the actual story. 

 so speaking of Instagram mentioned somewhere that even after becoming, you know, a suggested user on Instagram, like you were one of the first adopters you were going on photo walks and doing all that stuff.

even after you've. You know, already had a following and started getting more involved with the app. You still viewed this white, let's call it a profession, I guess, as a hobby. So what was that point where you were like, oh, you know what, I can do this. I can do this full time. I could make this into my work.

And was it difficult to get to that point because. Well, the reason why I'm asking that is because I think a lot of people are interested right. In creative careers and creative fast, but getting to that moment where you're like, you know what? I can do this. This can be my thing. 

Marion: [00:23:24] Yeah, it's very different for, for different people. So I, myself, it took me awhile. It took me a couple of years, actually. So from, you know, being a suggestive user, gaining all these followers to then getting my first offer, like a job offer or a project offer to create content for, for a car brand. And.

2014 or 14. this was like an aha moment. So I realized, okay, there is something to it. This has some kind of value that could potentially, you know, make money in some sort of way. But then it took me three more years to build that career next to my regular office job. And I did that on the weekends at first.

And then. I reduced my job to like a part-time job, always in the illusion that I could keep that part-time job forever as like a security backup or anchor,  because this is just how, I don't know why, because my mom did the complete opposite. Like she quit her job in her forties. I told you, and she, you know, didn't even have an education or anything.

She just build something new from, from scratch. Maybe I was afraid of that. So that's why I build it slowly, gradually next to my job. Always hoping that I could keep the job. And then after half a year, what happened is that in that office that I was working in, they had like a huge process where a consultants came in and they were read.

Distributing people within the organization. And I would have my sh my boss got kicked out actually. So they wanted to move me to a different department. And I was willing to do that actually, because it sounded intriguing, interesting new department, but then I had one talk with my new boss, potential new boss.

And it was like, no, I cannot work with this guy. Like, it's impossible, impossible for me. He was condescending. And he was like, he put his feet up on the desk while talking to me and it was all super uncomfortable and this is what I needed. You know, this was the kick in the butt that I needed to, to. Quit the job.

So it was very, very slow process. It's not that I would recommend that, but for me, I couldn't do it any other way. Like I was, I don't know why, but I was too afraid to, to go full into, into self employment. 

And when, once I did in 2016, like now there's no way for me to go back ever. Okay. 

Yulia: [00:25:43] Oh, I feel that sentiment a hundred percent. I feel the same way. Like I don't see myself in corporates or, or, or in that 

type of 

work ever again, 

Marion: [00:25:53] You did some 

crazy things like you did some really hardcore 

Yulia: [00:25:56]  Yes.but, but what I like actually, I, I love the, you. you shared this part of your story with us because. This is, I actually think more people need to be talking like what you were saying, because we have this idea that it's like this, right?

We quit a job and you know, we start building this new thing and overnight it works in reality. I think the, the re the reality for most people is not that the reality for most people is that it takes time. It takes a long time to build something, to, to build relationships with people, to build your work, to know.

What do you like, what do you don't like to know your worth to charge enough 

money? Like all those things they take so much time, you know, and there is no shame in that and there is no it doesn't make you any less of a talented, worthy, capable person. If it's 

going to take you three years, five years, however 

many years 

Marion: [00:26:49]  So I think it's just impossible to be stressed out by, you know, Forbes 30 under 30 or whatever other lists out there, because it would deter you from, from your path and maybe your, your path or my path in this way as well is not that linear. And not that clear at first.

And even if it's clear, even if, you know, as a 10 year old, you know, I'm going to be that, I dunno, you keep guitarist and play for that rockstar band or whatever. It might also take you forever or a decade or longer to get there. But. But they're there. I don't think there is a way to jump over these like holes and just make it quicker by force.

Sometimes you have to accept that the path is a little winding and a little slower, but it will lead to, it will lead to things. It will lead to at least knowledge, at least experience. It will lead to confidence. so it has its value to take your slower path sometimes.

 Yulia: [00:27:42] so long as you don't stop. Right. So long as you don't stop. Because what I see often, and particularly in this, you know, in, in the travel journalism side, which is my side, All of this industry, you know, PR people pitch somebody once and they don't hear back. And they're like, you know what? This is not for me.

This is, this means I'm not good enough. This means I don't have what it takes now. Listen, you just pitch somebody once. Like, it's not how it works. You need to pitch people 10 times, 20 times, however many times it takes, you know? And that's that, that piece that you were talking about earlier about. The passion, the passion is what sustains us on this because it's like, there's nothing else on this earth that I would rather be doing.

So I'm going to keep pitching until I get to where I need to go. You know, 

Marion: [00:28:27] it's, like a force of nature. You cannot do any other way. Anyhow, like I learned things.

that, for example, in Austria, at least in August, there's, it's a dead month. Nothing happens in August. So you can pitch as much as you want in that month. But you won't get any replies. You won't get any decisions. So, you know, as you said, don't stop, but maybe postpone and do it at a different time.

So I think you'll learn 

these things, but there is, there is no way to stop. There's just no way I would do anything else. I might, you know, change my pitch. I might. I might, you know, put some little twists to it, learn more about the company that I'm pitching to. Why would they say no, maybe ask even for feedback learn and perfect your pitching skills along the way as well. 

Yulia: [00:29:11] Yes, absolutely. That's how you get better by doing it. That's that's the only one, one of the best ways I think is, is by doing so. I want to, I want to sing this this chat into a bit

a bit different direction, you know, that image of your new boss sitting at a table with his feet up. And being condescending you know, and you and I actually talks a lot about this in different spaces where we intersected.

We talked about this on clubhouse as well. 

I feel like for every woman creator that we meet, who is amazingly thriving, confident, and powered. There are 10 women behind her, or maybe even hundreds who are struggling, who are unsure, who are, who are feeling stifled, who are being put into boxes, who are being passed over for opportunities and promotions, you know, and like there's still so much to do in our industry, but you know, across in different industries, in terms of women getting the seat at the table is so.

What I'm curious to sort of hear your thoughts on, in, in your own space. Right. And particularly as you're getting into wildlife photography, that's a very male dominated space. So how do you, how do you feel about the direction where we're going? Is it, are you hopeful? Are you feeling like we need to do more?

 Marion: [00:30:30] maybe just to pick up on what you said first, like for every, you know, amazing role model woman, there is 10 or hundreds struggling ones, even the one amazing one is struggling at at times. I think that's also very important too, to recognize like even. The people you look up to you don't see what's happening behind the scenes.

You don't see how many times she has been passed up for an opportunity that?

she would well-deserved how many times she had to fight against. Other,

Other prejudices or whatever. Yeah.

So there's a lot of, I think, unfortunately, a lot of these things have not been made public and this is what makes me very hopeful that this debate is becoming more and more public.

That there's more and more awareness and not just among women, but also among men.  

Yulia: [00:31:12] the change needs to happen, right? It's like, it's like the conversation about anti-racism work like black 

people don't need to do anything. We need to do the work. Right. It's the same principle. 

 Marion: [00:31:23] it's true presenters. So we need them as allies, such as black people need, need to white people as allies 100%. And I think this shift is happening and this is incredible. So this is goes back to our mothers and our grandmothers, and we can be thankful for what they did, how they raised their sons to be.

More respectful to acknowledge that there is sexism. I think that's the first step, even that hasn't been, you know, the standard. So these things are changing and then there are examples of men really, you know, actively playing a role in doing things. I know, for example, one like a marketing guru here in Australia, and he's invited to conferences all the time to speak on behalf.

Stages. And last year he publicly announced that.

he would never go on a stage at a conference again, if there's not at least 50% female panelists. And this is, you know, it's not a tiny step, it's actually quite a big step, but it created change immediately. These conferences that, you know, we're working with him.

For years, they knew they had to change. So it put a lot of pressure on them and you know, that's one LA one LA changing whole conference marketing conference scene in the German speaking market. And I think there's more and more people like that amongst of course, you know, women like you who create these incredible networks where we empower each other.

That's so invaluable and incredible that you're, you know, doing that in your spare time, basically. So I think there's a lot of movement movement happening. It's going to take awhile. Everything takes too long. I mean, anyhow, but there is movement for sure. And wildlife photography is it's insane. It's UN it's unfortunate how insanely sexist and racist it is still to this date.

And this goes back to colonialism and goes back to all these historical things. And this might take even longer to, to change. But it's happening, like awareness is there and this is the first step. And then there's, you know, people have like MEB, Talia there's role models who are incredible. There's girls who click, which is a group of female photographers, you know, working with mentorship programs, bringing young women to the other photography scene.

So there, there is change happening. 

Yulia: [00:33:35] Yeah. And I think it's also generational in some ways, because you know, what gives me hope is seeing people younger than me, how they have no patience to deal with the stuff that we had patients to deal with, you know? And that's good. We need that. And that's how change is going to be even faster because.

Man. They're like, you know, don't give me any 

BS. 

Marion: [00:33:59]  

that's true. I think there's 

a lot of, you know, bashing of, the young generation, how woke they are as if that were a bad thing, but it's, it's over long overdue. Long overdue and Yes, it's, it can sometimes be unsettling and unnerving, especially, you know, when you notice your own.

Own flaws and your own faults, because we have been brought up in that society. Like we are a part of it. So I have internalized misogyny and sexism, and I have to work on myself and it's very uncomfortable calling yourself a feminist and then, you know, being caught doing something, not feminist, and that happens.

And that's good 

It's a good thing. It leads to too uncomfortable, but good change.

Yulia: [00:34:37] Yes, I love, I love that you said that because it's normalizing the uncomfortability or that feeling of discomfort, right? Because just in jail, even if we like, sort of zoom out and look at life in general, I think for a lot of people, comfort is prioritized above everything else. But that comfort leads you to places where you are falling asleep, actually in many different ways, right?

Because what it also takes to lead a life where you feel like you're, you're passionate, you're working on all these stuff. It's discomfort. 

Marion: [00:35:13] Unfortunately, that's very true. Yes. I mean, I'm, I'm probably very bad example cause I do like things to be comfortable as well. So I also think there's a huge over. I don't know if that's an English word overvaluation of success. So people put too much value on success. And I think that's a huge trap That.

we all fall into.

And I'm, I'm quite good at that. I have to say at like deterring those things. Being clear what I want, and it's not a standard definition of success, maybe per se. But for me, that is the ultimate goal and it involves a level of comfort. So yeah, I'm struggling with discomfort sometimes, but this is, I think that's a 

fine line as well to find the soul. 

Yulia: [00:35:59] and it's a dance, it's a dance that you keep dancing as you move 

Marion: [00:36:02] That's a good analogy. I 

like that. Yes, it is. It is. Sometimes it is slow. Dance is very comfortable and sometimes you have to get into the techno moves. 

Yulia: [00:36:12] Yeah, I love that you brought us into the space of discussing success because I've thought about this a lot too, because especially lately, you know, if you look at me and my peers from my prior life I haven't advanced in the corporate ladder. I don't make as much money as I used to. I don't have a  white picket fence house and all that stuff, you know, but I define my own success in this way.

Sunday night. Am I excited for Monday morning or no? And I am so freaking excited for Monday morning. For the past five years. That's been my life. I'm like, I can't wait to work on the stuff I'm working on. And for me that's like, you know what? That's all 

that matters to me. You know, I'm sorry, I'm having goosebumps, like talking 

Marion: [00:36:54] I mean, that's so important. So

I think people need to step back from whatever is  portrayed in media as success and find their own version of it. And for you, it's this description of your Sunday and anticipating Monday. And, for me, it's my freedom. It's my. Creating my own fate and my own journey and very much being my own.

How do you say in desert? Very nice German saying you're your  

click is meat. So you're. I don't even know what that means in English. So who makes you know, iron work?  And 

he's ironing his success and his, and his happiness 

Yulia: [00:37:30] I love that. I love taking iron ore and you're like wounding 

it into 

shape that you want. Basically, 

Marion: [00:37:37] welding, maybe your own shape or whatever you could call it. 

Yulia: [00:37:40] you don't have that same in Russia. We say,  the welder of your own happiness is 

is 

is the phrase in Russian. 

Marion: [00:37:47] version of that. We have to look it up. 

Yulia: [00:37:49] Let's trademark it now.  So, I want to sort of ask you more about your project prince for wildlife. tell us more about how that started. And I think you mentioned somewhere that. One of your goals for this project this year is to feature more women wildlife photographers, which is amazing.

 Marion: [00:38:09] so the the whole project summarized in hopefully two sentences is that we created a fundraiser for African parks by selling photo prints of over a hundred. Very. Incredible wildlife photographers, acclaimed world-renowned ones alongside emerging talents. So it's a very diverse group of photographers and they.

Last year, they donated their photos. So each donated one or two photos, and then we sold them for $100 each and a hundred percent of the proceeds after printing and handling went to African parks. And, you know, I'm, I never worked fundraising. I had no idea how fundraising works. I just jumped into that by chance again.

So. Last year when, when COVID hit. And I was at home and my plant Africa, safari trip was canceled. I started to read a lot about how, you know, industries nations are coping with tourism, just being on a standstill. And there was a huge media wave about how happy wildlife is now. You know, that.

humans are confined to their own four walls.

And then rules are jumping around. You know, the dolphins are returning to the Chels and vantage.  There were all these stories about happy, happy wildlife, and there was not a lot of media debate about conservation and how conservation is closely tied to tourism and how without tourism conservation is struggling.

And this was the initial idea to create more awareness for what is happening in conservation without tourism. And then I thought about a way to do something about it. And a print sale was just a logical thing. Like when I knew photographers, I knew they would donate. I talked to two P art studio. That's photographer, who I did the fundraiser with and he was on board immediately.

And basically, I think the same day, we just asked a couple of photographers. We knew if they would donate a photo and they all said, yes.

we have to, you know, we have to do it. There was no way back. And it took us a couple more months. We fought, we were just doing a small print sale, just 10 photographers, donating their photos, maybe raising 10,000, $20,000.

And then. It became bigger and bigger and bigger. And we raised over $600,000 last year, within a month, which was mind blowing and a, you know, a wonderful, hopeful story amongst all the chaos and depression that the pandemic created. So that's why we are returning this year. And this summer we will come back with another edition of it.

I can't wait. 

Yulia: [00:40:39] that's incredible. That's incredible. So,  if somebody wants to participate in that, you know, maybe provide their photos or how, how does that part of it work? Are you opening? Is it open submission or is it  

Marion: [00:40:51] last year it was chaos poor. We just asked people we knew and they would ask him their, their fellow colleagues. And then when we launched the print sale, we got. Hundreds and hundreds of emails of photographers wanting to donate their photo. And we were at a stage where it was basically too late.

We were like, sorry, it's all been started. The print lab is in full printing. We cannot accept anything anymore, basically. And so this year we decided to do differently and we had an open call. So unfortunately it's already over. So we had. Over 1,300 submissions, which is insane. It was 

just two weeks that we opened it.

And now we have the task to browse through all the 1,300 photos and choose the winners that will then be part of the print sale. and that this was one of the main goals of the open call was to have more women to have more also local talents or photographers who are based in Africa or from Africa, because that's also underrepresented, which is insane, but it's the way it is, unfortunately.

So this was the main goal to also create more visibility and, and possibility for, for these people. But you have to stay tuned 

because we didn't announce the winners yet. So this will follow in in June. 

 Yulia: [00:42:02] amazing and, and make sure for our listeners make sure to follow Marianne on Instagram at her handle lady venom which we'll link to in the show notes. she, first of all, is an incredible and very talented photographer and has beautiful work. But, you know, you can also learn more about her work with Prince for wildlife and other things that she's doing.

So make sure to follow her and be connected with all of her amazing updates as well.  so tell me, what are you, what has given you the most hope right now as we're sort of entering this new. Cautiously, we're starting to venture out. what has given you hope both in terms of your, your own work, but also in general, what you're seeing in the 

Marion: [00:42:45] think this whole tourism pause was not so bad after all. I think there was a lot of time to reconsider how we travel, what our travel dollars actually do at a destination. How, what kind of impact we create as travelers. So I think there's. Also like a shift in awareness that tourism can be used still as a force for good.

And I think part of this was very lost in the last couple of years. So the over tourism debates and everything that has happened for very valid reasons, I think now there's a chance to kind of transform tourism into something of more value. Again, I'm a bit fearful of. There, you know, there's a trend to say, okay, we need, you know, traveling needs to become more expensive, which would mean in the end, less attainable for.

Huge groups of

people,

And I do believe that traveling is a force for, you know, human connection for understanding for ultimately also for world peace, which is very cheesy, but it does do that in a way. And if we limit this to like an elite, again, like it used to be 150 years ago or so I see this is quite dangerous.

So there needs to be a fine line between altering travel, to being more. Positive force meaning impact in destinations, but also still having it attainable for hopefully most people on this planet. Huge challenge 

Yulia: [00:44:06] definitely. I think, I think the challenges for the way I see it is for people not to go back to sleep, you know, because 

it's so easy to just say, you know, okay. COVID is over. 

  And like you have good intentions to change things, but. I think that the biggest challenge that we have as human beings is inertia is fighting in their chef because in their show is so powerful, you know?

And yeah, going back to just being the same as so easy.

Marion: [00:44:32] new year's right. A new year's everyone has these great plans for the new year, but what happens is there is no pause in between like there's just a second between one year and the other year now we had like farro pause, like stop full stop, actually. So 

I think this created more room for like really internalizing change and not just saying I will change.

We'll see, like what reality will tell in the, in the future. But I do feel there is, there has been some changes also really like mentally and yeah, so maybe even sociologically on some level that we learn to, you know, value time, again, learn to value our own rhythm, slowing down all these things. I do believe we've really felt what it means to, to stop and slow down. 

Yulia: [00:45:18] yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, you're right. That we, we had the, we had that time to internalize a lot of that. So I'm going to stay with your hopeful take on this. 

let's let's do that.

Yes. Exactly. So, what would you say to someone who, to a woman  who is perhaps already in the creative industry or wants to get into it more and more, but has all of these doubts that, that we've sort of been talking about?

What would you say to her right now?

Marion: [00:45:43] you know, I think I told you that story before, but what I did when I was at that point in work where I was really unhappy, I didn't know where to go. I didn't have. A career plan. Now that didn't have an idea of what my passion would be is that I really put down on a notebook and note how I want to work in the future.

Not what kind of line of work or what kind of job, but how I want to work. I'm only speaking about work right now. I mean, of course you can do it, you know, for your private life or your love life or whatever you want to do that for. But I did that for my, for my career. And I put down on a piece of paper, like how I would envision myself to work in the future only in in-house.

So I had no idea of what kind of job would be a good surrounding for, for this. But in the end, all of it came true. It took a couple of years, but all of it came true. And, you know, I found that little notes a couple of years later and I looked at it and I was like, Wow. I cannot believe this really happened.

It's incredible. So I do believe there is some, you said your spiritual and your, you believe in these things. I do think things happen if you put them in motion somehow, and this could be a first step. If you're stuck just you don't take time, take a break and put things on a paper.

Yulia: [00:46:55]  Marianne, I love so much that you said that that's just so perfect because for our listeners who have been hearing me talk about all these things on this podcast, this is one of the key things that I always talk about, which is. Visualization and envisioning what we want and envisioning that in greatest detail.

and that is so powerful and there's actually scientific studies that dig into why it's powerful and what happens when you do that, 

Marion: [00:47:21] So it has some transformative quality. It must have. I mean, it must do something otherwise I cannot 

explain what happened to me. 

 Yulia: [00:47:28] It does. And, and, and you know, what it is actually is that when you put it on a piece of paper, you're almost like given your brain and your unconsciousness, the direction on what's in notice, because what, you know, we, we are surrounded with so much information everyday, but bombarded with a lot of information.

And most of with our brains filter out and we don't even realize that it's happening. It's like this uncom auto process that. Needs to happen so that we can function. But who decides what gets filtered out and what doesn't most of the time, there is no rhyme or reason to it. It's just sort of what happens.

But when you put that stuff on paper, you giving your unconscious direction, Hey, pay attention to this because that's what I'm looking for. And then things starts to happen in your life. Almost like, oh my God, what's, you know, what's happening, but it's because you're now noticing things that before you wouldn't have, 

 Marion: [00:48:16] That makes a lot of sense. That's a very good explanation. So as you know, this is such an easy thing. Everyone can do that. You don't need money, you know, people will say, yeah, if you quit your job, I mean, you need to have, enough financial background. Or if you want to travel, you need to have time or again.

money and putting something on paper.

Everyone can do it. Like, there's no reason not to do it. Even if you're low in energy, if you're depressed, whatever you can, you know, put something on paper. And even if it's at first, you don't know what to put on there. They will, something will come out of the process of trying to do it. 

Yulia: [00:48:50] yes. Oh, beautiful. I love that. And yes, if you're listening and if you're looking for a little bit of that inspiration and direction and perhaps even clarity, take some time, one quiet evening and just put, put your thoughts on paper and put. Your own vision of what did it say you're trying to do with your life?

Put it on paper and you will be surprised how powerful that can be.  Marianne. I think we have had such an amazing conversation and I feel like I want to continue chatting with you because we feel very much alike. It sounds like we, we are aligned and. A lot of ways in which we view life. and I really appreciate that, but I think we are going to have to close because you know, three or four hour podcasts, that's not 

just not 

a thing. 

Marion: [00:49:38] 

Yulia: [00:49:38]  And I want to close with this question that I always close my podcasts with, which is, and, and it's, it's sort of a bigger question. but how would you start answering that? What does it mean to be a woman who is stepping into her brilliance today?

 Marion: [00:49:55] Yeah, no, for me personally, it means a liberation. It is total liberation. You are freed from whatever other people think you should do. You're freed from your own pre concepts of what you should do. It is total and utter liberation and it feels incredible. 

 Yulia: [00:50:12] Where are you going to close right there? Because that is beautiful. And that is exactly where we need to leave that sentiment and that emotion.  Thank you so much, Marianne. That was such a pleasure to have you on the podcast today. Thank you for sharing your beautiful 

thoughts with us. 

Marion: [00:50:27] Thank you so much, Julia, for having me. Thank you. It was amazing. And all the best with Chinese women. Can't wait, what's coming next

 Thank you so much for sharing an hour of your day with us today.  I hope you enjoy this conversation with Marianne. And if so,  please consider leaving us a review so that more listeners could find our show.  I can't stress how important it is for us to get reviews of our podcast. It really helps to get in front of more people who might enjoy our show.

 So if you've been inspired by something you heard today,  or in any other episode of our show,  please consider leaving us your review. That is one of the best ways you can support our podcast.  Thanks again. And I'll see you next week for a conversation with a surprising twist. So states.