S3 E35: Insights From The Circle

Get the show’s transcript

“AB: I feel like I’m learning from the process that those incremental actions are what you hang your hat on in the meantime, because that felt like such a success to me yesterday and the day before, doing that. I had never done it before. I’m learning as I’m going and I was like, that felt like a little bit of a lightbulb yesterday of like, well, in the meantime, this is what is the success. Then that will come again as I keep working.

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:28] YD: Welcome to the Genius Womxn podcast. I’m your host, Yulia Denisyuk, an award-winning travel photographer and writer with work in some incredible publications like National Geographic, AFAR magazine and more. This year, you’ll see my name in places like 

Condé Nast Traveler. I am on a mission to help other women who wants to grow their travel storytelling careers, go after their dreams while feeling supported, worthy, and bold. If you’re ready to ditch your fear and doubts to the side, step into your brilliance, and take action on your dreams, you’re in the right place. Let’s go!

Before we get started, I want to let you know that today’s episode is brought to you by our Circle membership. The Circle is our membership for women and their supporters who want to get their travel stories published. We have weekly check-ins, monthly idea brainstorm sessions, curated opportunities to pursue in the travel media space, pitch reviews where I give you feedback on your pitches, and much, much more. Enrollment in The Circle is open right now and you can join us as a monthly or an annual member. If you’ve been on the fence about joining us, now is the time, because in September, we’re going to close enrollment as we prepare for our one-year anniversary. If you’ve been thinking about this, now is the time. Visit geniuswomxn.com/circle to get started.  

Today, I’m thrilled to welcome two wonderful Circle members to our podcast. Ashley Brooks is a travel and lifestyle writer and the owner of a boutique Pilates studio in Florida, who’s been with us in The Circle since January. Sam Flanagan is a travel and tech writer interested in economic development, who’s also based in Florida and who’s been with us in The Circle for several months. This very special conversation is about what it means to be creative, who gets to decide whether or not you’re a real writer or a photographer, what happens when we surround ourselves with people on similar paths, and how the transformations we seek are often small and incremental, and yet how they add up to something substantial over time.

This conversation is also celebration of our Genius Womxn Circle Community. When we embark on a path and try something new, we give ourselves a beautiful gift, a gift of new experiences, new communities, new knowledge about ourselves and our lives, and a new imagination of what is possible in our world. I reflect on this now because we are approaching a one-year anniversary of doing this work in The Circle. The people who have joined our community, they’ve been changed and they’ve seen tangible results, like publishing their stories and intangible ones, like gaining new confidence on this path and support of our community. But here’s the thing, I’ve been changed by our Circle members as well. 

Working with these incredible women week in and week out has shown me what is possible in the world, something that I couldn’t have even imagined a year ago. That is, when real women with real fears, doubts, and struggles, and also, real dreams and aspirations come together, give and receive wholeheartedly and commit to this path, then something special happens. They take risks, they pursue their stories more and more bravely and they become the creators they’ve always wanted to be. To witness that has been an honor for me and I thank our Genius for the community we have created together. All right. Let’s get into this episode.

[EPISODE] 

[00:04:29] YD: All right. Ashley, Sam, I’m very, very excited to have you guys on the podcast today. I know we had some challenges with figuring out the times that work for everyone, but I’m glad that we could make it work. I’m just thrilled to have you with us today.

Let me introduce you first before we get started. Today with us, we have wonderful Ashley Brooks, who is a travel and culture writer and owner of a boutique Pilates studio based in Florida. We also have a fabulous, Sam Flanagan, who is a travel and tech writer based in Florida as well. We have Florida in the house today. Florida representing. Welcome. Welcome to you both.

[00:05:14] AB: Thank you. 

[00:05:14] SF: Thanks, Yulia.

[00:05:14] YD: Awesome! As I was sort of getting ready today, I just realized that both of you have submitted reviews of the podcast recently, which I wanted to thank you for. You both submitted, wrote really nice and wonderful reviews. To anyone listening, I always speak about this at the end of the show, but today, I want to bring it up in the beginning. If you find our podcast helpful in any small shape or form or inspiring, please, please consider leaving us a review because, as you guys all know, it’s so hard to stand out in the sea of contents that we’re living in in 2021. That’s how, at least, the Apple podcast algorithm knows that they have something special here. The more reviews we get, the more possibility it is that our show will be sort of pushed in front of more people, which is always good, because then, we can help more people and have a bigger impact. 

If you’re listening to this now and you enjoy our podcast, please consider living us a review just like Ashley and Sam did recently and both were very wonderful reviews, so I thank you both so much for your time. Okay. Ashley and Sam are also both members of The Circle, our membership, where we help each other and we support each other on the path to becoming the writers, the creators, the women that we want to be. Ashley has been with us since January, I think?

[00:06:48] AB: Yes.

[00:06:49] YD: Sam has been with us since June, maybe. June? May or June? Something like that.

[00:06:54] SF: May, but I didn’t really get that involved until June because I was away.

[00:06:59] YD: Yeah. You had that fabulous trip to Georgia. We’re going to talk about The Circle and our community and what we do a little bit later, but I wanted to kick us off with this question for both of you, which is, what attracted you to a creative path? Because it’s still a very untraditional way to have a life. At least most people I know have a regular job, although I am starting to surround myself more and more with people who are on a similar path, which is part of the magic of that. But yeah, I’m just curious, how did you end up on this path? Both of you are writers and you’ve written some incredible stories already. What attracted you to this path?

[00:07:45] AB: I think it was just kind of a natural wish of being an avid reader, that then you – I kind of wanted to be a writer and was kind of a closet writer. I would write for myself and it really wasn’t until I came across your storytellers in action course – I mean, of course, I had thought about, “Oh! If I could write.” But it just felt like a closed door. I just didn’t really know the means to take what I was working on and then have it shared in any public format. I feel like that kind of opened that door.

[00:08:20] YD: Amazing. Sam, what about you?

[00:08:23] SF: I’m just laughing in my head when you’re saying the thing about reading because that was so much like for me growing up. But yeah, I can kind of relate to the idea of, like for me, it felt like almost the creative path is kind of a natural state that I was maybe fighting. It kind of took a little bit to come back to it. I know like growing up, like if I think about when I was a kid and stuff, like, oh my God. I loved reading and writing stories. I hardcore in high school was in a phase where I was like, “I’m going to be a film major.” Then I don’t know, it was just – there’s always this kind of narrative of like, “Well, but somebody, you’re going to get a real job and you’re going to do these real things. Then maybe someday you can do that stuff on the side.” 

I think I was subconsciously resisting that. Because even when I finish school, and I should have got a “real job”, I was kind of like, “Well, I’m going to work with this startup and write for them,” and just kind of went step by step. Then, I kind of did the whole thing where I went to grad school. Then, “Okay. Now, I’m really going to get a real job. Do a research job.” It was just like – it was miserable, like it was just – I don’t know. It made me realize all these things that I took for granted about myself, or actually skills that I had and that I could use to achieve kind of this stuff that I want to do and help people. Those types of things related to creativity, and storytelling, which I had always been – I had always kind of brushed in the side because it seemed like, oh, those aren’t “real work.”

Then once I put myself in that situation where I was like, “Wow! This is miserable. This isn’t for me.” I realized I actually am way more successful and helpful to other people when I’m being this creative person. That’s where I kind of said, “Okay. I’m going to take a step back and only work on things.” It’s an ongoing process, right? I’m still shaping what does that look for me in a career? But the baby steps for me was, okay, I know that I enjoy writing and that I have some opportunities to do that, so let’s just start there and see what other types of creative projects open from there.

[00:10:31] YD: Yeah. Oh my gosh! Both of you said something really special, which I want to tease out a little bit. First, Ashley, you said it felt like this was a closed-door until the door had opened, which is that idea of – that applies not only to writing or not only creative paths. It applies to anything that we want to do in life. When we don’t see people around us who are doing something similar, it is so hard for us to be the only one or the first one or whatever, right? When we see examples of almost like models of how we would like to be when we see those models in front of us, it becomes infinitely easier to imagine that you can do it too. I thought that was super relevant.

I had a conversation recently with Lola Akindmade, she’s a wonderful creator. She’s that person for me right now. She’s a TED speaker, she’s an accomplished book author. She’s just an amazing creator. I’m speaking to her like this, and then like, “Oh my God! I can do this.” Because that’s one of my aspirations right now, is to be a TED speaker for example. I see this and I’m like, “I can do it,” and it’s so powerful. I think that’s what you’re referring to, Ashley.

[00:11:43] AB: Absolutely, yeah. I mean, I think we all feel that way about you, Yulia. We’ve followed you on Instagram or social media or whatever, then to get to interact with you on a weekly basis and be like, “We’re acting with Yulia. She’s kind of opening the door and pulling –” you use the phrase sometimes, “pulling back the veil,” but I agree, that is very important and kind of eye-opening.

I don’t want to say how easy it is, because it’s not easy, but it is accessible. Once you realize that there is a pattern or a playbook, then you keep trying to follow the playbook. It’s part of the process, but it’s also something different than just the creative process itself. They go hand-in-hand, but they’re a little bit different. I was sharing with the group this week that I did some of my first expert interviews this week. 

[00:12:35] YD: Yay!

[00:12:35] AB: Thanks. I was so excited and they went well. I was super nervous, but they went well. As I wrapped up the second one yesterday, I thought, “Gosh! This really is part of the creative. It’s all part of the process.” It’s so much bigger than just sitting down and writing. That’s a piece of it, but there’s a lot more going on here. That’s been really fun.

[00:12:55] YD: Yeah. Oh my God! I love that you brought this up, Ashley, because that is super, super important, because it’s exactly it, right? Being a creator is not just when you’re sitting in front of your laptop and writing a story or whatever. It’s about so many things that you do on a daily basis. I think what you are talking about there is really commitment to this path is what you are talking about. It’s commitment in the way you think, in the way you act, in the way you behave in your choices every day on what you choose to work on or how you choose to guard your time. Because we all have a lot of demands on our time and we were actually talking about this in The Circle, I think this week, is that, if you don’t create that structure for yourself, it’s going to get attacked from so many different demands that we have. 

If you have another project that you’re working on, like for example, Ashley, you’re a Pilates studio owner as well. Sam, I know you’re doing some other things too. Many people who are in The Circle have multiple projects going on. If you don’t guard that time, it’s going to disappear. We have to create it.

Sam, I want to point out something that you said too, you said that when you realized that the skills you had were actually helpful to people and – I think you said something like I decided to go all in on the skills that I had and realize that they were my gifts and that actually made you feel much better about your situation.

That’s a very keen observation, because there’s this concept of the zone of genius and I’ve talked about this before in The Circle and I think in this podcast as well. It’s when we step into our zone of genius, it’s almost like everything falls into place. I can relate so much to what you are saying, Sam, because I was in a marketing job. I hated it. That was so miserable. I was good at it, but it wasn’t my genius. It was my zone of excellence or a zone of proficiency, like they’re sort of different levels. I was good at my job, I was a genius at it and I was miserable.

Once I start stepping into my genius, which is again creative process, but also, what I’m learning is inspiring others and boosting others in creating this community. This is where I feel like everything’s lining up for me, like all the stars are aligning. I think that’s what you were talking about as well. 

[00:15:23] SF: Yeah. You say it very well. I want to be clear too for anyone listening in case this is helpful. I didn’t just have this sudden revelation on my own, where one day I was like, “I am going to step into my genius.” Actually, it was kind of overwhelming for me a lot of times. I listen to these stories of people being successful and it would just feel like this gap of like, “Here I am now and here they are.” Like, “I need to just get myself together and what I feel. Once I just decide I’m going to do it, it will all fall into place.” But actually, it wasn’t until I started like seeking out resources and specific people to help me. The thing about identifying my skills, like I was working with a career coach, which was something I resisted doing for a long time and it ended up being – not that every person has to work with a career coach. I think every person needs just kind of reflect inside with what they need and how they need to figure it out.

It sounds so simple and beautiful when I say it now, but it was a lot of work and tears, if I’m being honest, of coming to that revelation and being able to let go of the things that weren’t working and to embrace what was really me and what my skills were. Then there’s little steps along the way. I mean, when I found the – like Ashley mentioned, like following you on social media. I had followed you for a while and was inspired by The Circle. But it was really kind of the podcast and then Clubhouse where I started to almost like “get to know you more” even though it was still at a distance. It was hearing those stories all the time that you were kind of bringing to my attention of, these are the people that have done it.

You and Ashley were just talking about this a second ago. I mean, seeing the people that inspire you and show you that it’s possible, it’s accessible, that there’s a way to do it. It was very incremental for me, learning to follow my skills and go in that direction. I wouldn’t have done that on my own if I didn’t seek out help and support from other people. That was a big part too, like I’m sure – I know we’re going to talk about The Circle later, but for me, like this value of The Circle is that, I’m surrounded by people that are – it’s just the constant – I need to be around people that are giving me that image of what’s possible and inspiring me. I think that that’s –

If anyone is in a stuck place, it’s always a good place to start by surrounding yourself and looking for people that inspire you, whether that’s in a group, or doing coaching, or therapy, or Instagram, whatever works.

[00:18:00] YD: Yeah. Yes, Sam. I mean, it’s so true. For most part of my time on this path, I’ve been so alone. I sometimes joke that like The Circle is – I have to thank my alone time on this path to now create something that breaks all that apart, because it’s so difficult when you’re trying to do this alone. You have no one to turn to, you have so many doubts, you have so many questions and you’re like, “I don’t know what I’m doing. I just need some guidance.” I know how –

[00:18:29] SF: There’s always a lot of people that pop up to tell you why it won’t work, why you shouldn’t do that. 

[00:18:34] YD: Or just they’re indifferent too. We all have our own problems in life. Sometimes people could care less what you’re struggling with. Unless, why the magic? Because we’re all doing the same thing, we’re all passionate about the same thing. We understand our struggles so well and our doubts and all of those. I think that’s why it works.

[ADVERTISEMENT]

[00:18:56] YD: Hey, friends. I’m interrupting myself here for a quick second to let you know that I’ve created a brand new resource, just for you. If you’re enjoying listening to this podcast and want to start pitching your travel stories, go to geniuswomxn.com/pitch to get access to my private pop-up podcast of three short episodes that reveal the secrets of successful pitching. That’s geniuswomxn.com/pitch. Okay. Back to this episode.

[EPISODE CONTINUES] 

[00:19:28] YD: There’s something else you said about working with other people and about the incrementality of the change. That is so important. I’m so glad you brought it up, Sam, because we live in the world and in an age where we see this instance transformations on Instagram. We see instant successes. Somebody post, it went viral or whatever. It’s all about, like I have to – I want to remind people all the time how behind all that instant everything in transformation is a mountain of work, a mountain of work and effort. Whatever it is that you’re doing. Even this, right, you gain some clarity on your next steps, like where you want to take your career, how the skills that you have can better serve people. That didn’t happen overnight. You did a lot of work and tears that were involved with that.

I think for me, that also translates to why do I always talk about small action every day, small incremental action every day. Because that’s how this works, you guys, like there is no magic formula. There is no magic bullet for – now, I can say – we were talking about bios before we started recording. Like my bio says right now, I’m an award-winning published travel photographer and writer, would work in National Geographic, BBC Travel, all these magazines. That didn’t happen overnight. It’s five years of daily action, daily small action, small. Not something big, but small. That’s how it works. Going back to, it’s commitment to that path. IT’s commitment to those small daily actions. Again, surrounding yourself with people who are on a similar path, because together, it’s easier to stick with that and to not get discouraged when we face all the fears and all the doubt that we have.

Which actually brings me to the next area in which I wanted to sort of take this conversation, which is, fears and doubts and why is this path so ridden with fears and doubts, and why it becomes so important for us to again, surround ourselves with people who are on this path. Because what I’ve learned on this journey of starting Genius Womxn, of running The Class, which Ashley was in the very first founding cohort of The Class, which is awesome. I stumbled into this realization, I also – I wasn’t aware that this is happening. But in that first cohort and ever since and in The Circle too. I see the same themes again, and again, and again. Self-doubt, fear that you’re not good enough, you’re not prepared enough, you’re not talented enough, creative enough. All those themes, they keep coming up for all of us.

I think the power is in seeing that we’re sharing these fears and that to me says, okay, that means there’s actually nothing wrong with me. There are some sort of overarching or like something happening here that makes all of us feel this way, but it’s not about me. There’s nothing wrong with me.

I wanted to hear how you’ve dealt with that. Because again, those fears and those doubts, they come up again and again. What are some of the things that have helped you as you’re taking these steps? Ashley, you just had a Huffington Post article come out, which was amazing. Then some incredible things happened after that as well. Sam, you pitched Condé Nast Traveler recently and you’re sort of in conversation with them right now. Talk me through or walk me through this process for. When you have those fears or maybe you don’t, maybe you don’t anymore. I don’t know. I still have them, but maybe you don’t. But if you do, like what is that process look like for you of overcoming that, and still pushing through that and still doing things that we talked about?

[00:23:31] AB: I mean, I still absolutely have them. One of the things you just were talking about, incremental gains or steps. I think – we’ve chatted before about how I had the Huffington Post piece come out and, I think, one way my insecurity is roaring back at me is it’s like, “What’s going to be next? Can I do it again?” That’s just fear. But recently in the last few weeks and especially this week with having those interviews and things, I feel like I’m learning from the process that those incremental actions are what you hang your hat on in the meantime, because that felt like such a success to me yesterday and the day before doing that.

I had never done it before. I’m learning as I’m going and I was like, that felt like a little bit of a lightbulb yesterday of like, well, in the meantime, this is what is the success. Then that will come again as I keep working. Not just – I mean, it ebbs and flows, but that made me feel good this week, just of like taking that step. I think, moving forward, I just want to keep reminding myself of that. I think that’s what the group really does too. I mean, it does a lot of things, but it’s just that constant reminder of like little steps, little steps. I mean, Yulia, you probably say it too, a hundred times. But you do need to keep hearing it. I think that’s the benefit of just having somebody else say to you, “This is what it takes.”

The other thing I was going to say too is that, we were talking about people that inspire us, that are further along on the path. That’s so important, so real. But one of the unexpected benefits for me just because I don’t know that I had experienced it in quite this way is, watching people that are in that same shallow part of the pool trying to go deeper and seeing them have little successes. That’s been really inspiring because you’re like, “Oh gosh! They’re doing it, so yeah, it is possible. It can happen.” I think that’s really powerful too. Not just the people that are already in the deep end treading water and are there, but enjoying that too.

[00:25:35] YD: I love everything you just said. That’s so beautiful and powerful. I think what you said about the phrase itself was so good. It’s like, what did you say? Turning your hat on –

[00:25:45] AB: Hanging your hat on the little incremental actions.

[00:25:47] YD: Yes. That actually goes back to what you said earlier, about how this whole process is part of this path. Not just when you’re sitting down and writing a pitch, not just when your pitch gets accepted or rejected, not just when you have to re-pitch it. Like all of these, right? Talking to people for an interview, even doing the research and meeting new people somewhere that might spark some ideas about some new stories and new angles. All of that is part of the process.

I love your definition how, in the meantime, this is my success, right? Having that great interview is success, talking to somebody for an angle is a success. I just love that. I think that’s a really great way to think about it. Sam, what about you? What does that process looks like for you right now?

[00:26:34] SF: For me, if you’re in doubt, it tends to be a lot more kind of the big upfront decision. My biggest fear just on the creative path in general was, “Is this what I want? Do I want to be a writer?” Like I have a lot of different types of projects and work that I’m interested in and different things I could focus on. It was kind of scary of, “Okay, I can be a writer.” But if I step up and say, “I’m a writer,” am I closing the door on these other things?

It’s actually really, the turning point for me was, earlier this year, I wasn’t in The Circle yet, but I think it was your theme for the month and it reflected in your podcast and some of the Clubhouse rooms you’re talking about creative entrepreneurship. The message was kind of like, “Look, everyone’s doing all these different things, like you can just get started.” It’s not like you have to be all in, 24/7.

I think, I would kind of mix up when we talk about like being committed to the path. I would almost take that too literally and seriously. Like, “Oh! Am I ready to be committed to just that? I don’t know.” That fear for me was like claiming that. Once I realize like, “Oh, wait, no,” I can follow where my curiosity is taking me and try things out and go incrementally, step-by-step. For me it’s saying, “Okay. You know what? I’m going to do some more writing or I’m going to join this group or I’m going to pitch this one thing,” and to just see what feels good and what I want to do more of and learn as I go.

For like the day-to-day stuff, I’ve gotten really good at just totally – not specifically for writing, but just in general with life. I tend to think, if something makes me feel really uncomfortable or afraid, that’s probably what I need to do. I’ve intellectualized that. It makes it a little bit easier when I’m panicking, like, “I really don’t want to send that follow-up email” to just be like, “Well, you have to do it. Otherwise, you’re not going to advance, so just like close your eyes and press send and walk away. Then don’t think about it too much afterwards.” I’ve kind of learned to kind of like let go and move on from those little steps.

[00:28:52] YD: Yeah. I love that, Sam. Listen, I think we live in the age where we have so much freedom to pursue many different paths together at the same time and not be – we had in a conversation with Lola, we had this concept. She talked a lot about people putting you into boxes. You putting yourself into a box when you say, “I have to be a — if I’m a writer, that means I’m only doing this,” for example. No, right? It’s like there’s so many different things that we can pursue.

I just want to point out that what you talked earlier about how commitment to the path for you meant that, it means I have to be 24/7 a writer. That’s not actually what I mean when I say commitment. When I say commitment, I say, “Do something towards it every day. Do something small towards it every day?” Commitment to me means, over the long-term, I keep progressing in that direction, but not necessarily that it overtakes my whole day and my whole week every single week. I think that’s just an important distinction.

[00:30:00] SF: I think there’s a lot to be learned too in the process of doing that thing every day. For me, I give myself the flexibility and permission to say, maybe I am going to change my mind. Like I think if someone’s interested in doing something creative writing, photography, and you don’t know if it’s what you want to do forever. You don’t have to do it forever, it’s just, you want to do it now so do it. You can change your mind and in the process of starting and committing to something, you will learn something else about yourself and that will lead to a different place. I’ve come to kind of embrace that side of things instead of just being so afraid to get started that I never start anything.

[00:30:42] YD: Yeah. Because I think we treat our decisions as if they are forever and ever irreversible, irrevocable, but they’re not. Nothing is irrevocable. You can take right turns, left turns so many times in life. I’m relating to this a lot right now because, as we’re recording this, I’m in Barcelona in Spain and I’m going to go to Valencia soon. One of the reasons why I’m here is to check out how I like this, so perhaps I move here. But I’ve noticed this about myself that I was really freaking out about making the right choice.

Is it Valencia or is it Barcelona? Which one? It’s such an important decision. But then I realized, wait a minute. Okay, I can stay in Barcelona for a little bit, live here for a year and then live in Valencia. If I don’t like Spain, I can always move out. I was approaching this as if, if I make the decision to move to Spain, then it’s irreversible, like it’s such an important decision. 

But then I’m like, why am I putting all this pressure on myself? No, it’s [inaudible 00:31:48]. See it, try it out, and then if you don’t like it, go somewhere else, which is sort of similar thing that you are talking about, Sam. I think it gives you so much more lightness with which to move through the world honestly. It’s like –

[00:32:05] SF: Look at – Ashley’s recording from your Pilates studio. I think that for me, that’s such powerful inspiration of like, you’re doing two things and probably more things too. But it’s not writing is taking away from your Pilates or vice versa. 

[00:32:23] AB: Well, thanks. It’s funny you say that though, because that’s actually a source or has been – I feel like it’s better now – of insecurity. I was kind of like, “Oh! I’m not a writer, and I don’t have high education in that area. What business do I have dipping my toe there?” I felt very – what do you call it, Yulia? The impostor syndrome. I just felt like, “Oh!” I’ve kind of embraced that idea more and more, just being around all of you guys. That yeah, we can have more than one thing. Really, that just makes us more well-rounded. It doesn’t make you less capable in one area because you’re doing something that is different, but thank you for saying that, Sam.

[00:33:00] YD: Who gets to decides who you are, Ashley? Who gets to say, “I am this thing” or “I’m not this thing”? I think we often put so much – we gave away so much of our power, particularly as women. When we get others to define, like I mean, you’re too thin, you’re too fat, you’re too this, you’re too that, you’re not strong enough, you’re too strong, all of those things. You are a writer, you’re not a writer. You are a real woman if you are married and have kids. You are not a real woman if you don’t have those.

There’s so many ways in which we can give our power away. To me, that’s actually one of the ways that it shows up, because no one can tell me if I’m a writer or if I’m not. Only I can tell that to myself. I would also say that, we would bring her up a lot in The Circle too, Liz Gilbert, which is – I love how she writes and I love how she writes particularly about creativity and about this path. What I love about what she talks about is, we are creative by the fact that we are born. It’s an innate human ability to be creative. Like people drawing sticks in caves thousands and thousands of years ago, they wanted to express themselves. Because what is creativity, right? It’s expressing yourself in a way that feels natural to you.

Yes, you didn’t go to school for writing. I didn’t either. I didn’t study photography. I didn’t study writing. English is my second, third language or whatever. I want to express myself through words and that is what I hold onto when I hear – because I hear that voice too, Ashley, that’s says, “Who are you? Are you a real writer?” when I’m reaching out to Travel and Leisure or when I had to give that master class with National Geographic. I think I shared that story that they sent me a prior year’s presentation from one of their photographers and I just almost hid under the table. I’m like, “Ugh! Who am I to do this? I don’t have this body of work that that other photographer had. He had so many accolades and all of that.” 

Again, that’s what I sort of go back to, is how I express myself. That is innately mine because I’m human, I was born, and it’s how humans express themselves. Maybe it’s helpful for people. If you’re listening to this, maybe it’s helpful for you to think about it that way as well.

[00:35:38] AB: One of the things that’s been helpful so far in the first seven months of this experience and this journey is, so far, nobody cares. Nobody cared. Yesterday, the day before I spoke for an hour, they didn’t asked me who – they were thrilled to talk about –

[00:35:56] YD: They didn’t ask for your credentials?

[00:35:57] AB: No, not even once. Even dealing with the Huffington Post, that was never even an issue. It was about the idea, and expressing myself, and then their input with the story. I mean, it just – yeah, it really is just that useless voice in the head that nobody else cares.

[00:36:16] YD: Yes, I tell you guys this all the time too, right? When we approach editors with our stories, ideas, they’re not going to not take your idea just because you haven’t been published anywhere. If that’s what they do, I’m sorry, they’re not a good editor. Because the editor’s job is to look for great ideas that fit with their publications. I mean, they have other things that they do too, but that’s one part of their job. If you send them a pitch with an idea and you’ve never been published anywhere, if it’s a great idea that fits with them, they’re going to take, they’re not going to say, “Oh! Come back again when you have a bigger portfolio.”

I mean, of course. with some exceptions, because there are still publications out there that are more stodgy, let’s say. But I think in general. like the world is getting so much more democratized. Yeah, your experience, Ashley, is a great example of that, that they didn’t ask for your credentials. That doesn’t matter as much.

We will sort of touch upon The Circle a little bit and how some of the things that you guys have already seen. I’m curious, what can you point to as some of the bigger impacts or bigger changes that you’ve noticed in the way you approach this path, in the way that you think about yourself as a writer, as a creator now, since joining us in The Circle? What are some of those things that have changed for you?

[00:37:44] SF: We kind of just talked about this a little bit, but for me, it’s just being able to call myself a writer. Yulia, you –

[00:37:52] YD: We had that conversation, yes.

[00:37:54] SF: Yeah. Because with me. Like I have things that are published. See, I even like stumble over that word now, because I’m like, “Is it really published if it’s for a brand or if it’s this for this brand?” I get money to write things, but it’s not like — I guess the difference for me is like, I’m transitioning into telling stories that I want to tell and writing different, more creative, longer pieces. But I still kind of – I came to this Circle being like, “Well, I’m not a writer. I’m not a real writer.” I think what’s good with The Circle is, especially just having community people at all different levels and you just realize like, “Okay. Now, we’re all writers. We’re all creatives.” 

I think my next thing that I’ve been thinking about a lot lately that I want to try to do more or get more from The Circle that I’ve never brought up before is doing more with photography. I told someone this week, they say, “Can you take pictures of me on the beach?” They said, “Oh! I’m not a photographer. I’m not a real photographer, but here’s one.” I have no training in photography. I have one old camera and one old lens, but I enjoy it. 

That’s one thing I’ve been thinking a lot about lately is, okay. Well, I’m in this resource of creative people and a lot of them are extremely talented photographers. Why don’t I just learn? What is it that I need to feel more confident about photography or to do more with it or incorporate more photography in what I do? But yeah, I think the biggest thing starting out is just being able to, “Okay. I’m a writer,” and that’s it, without any sort of “but” afterwards. Yeah. It’s just kind of owning writing, creating, and whatever it is that I want to do.

[00:39:30] YD: Yeah. I remember that conversation, Sam that we had with – 

[00:39:36] SF: But it was good because you called me. This is a good thing with The Circle too, is you kind of just like – it’s no BS, it’s like, “Wait. What do you mean? You’ve done this. You answer me. This is what’s going on.” I was like, “You’re right. Okay. Can’t argue with that.” It’s easy to argue with myself, but I can’t argue with all of you. That’s something I like with The Circle too.

[00:40:03] YD: I think what you’re sort of touching upon here is that perspectives. We have perspective inside your situation that it’s so hard to gain that perspective when you’re in it. We all have that, like I have the same thing. I think that’s – forget about anything else. In any sort of circumstances where you’re surrounding yourself with a community of people, with shared paths, whatever industry or whatever endeavor. That to me is one of the biggest benefits, is that, they see inside your situation and they recognize it, because they’re in similar paths. But sometimes, they see things in that situation that you don’t see, because you’re just so inside of it. I think that perspective is so, so powerful. I’m happy to provide this every week in The Circle to you guys.

[00:40:52] AB: Well, that’s kind of what I was going to say, was the biggest impact for me is that, up until this point, my family even kind of joked me a little bit. When I started this, they’re like, “Oh! I don’t know. You’re not really a joiner. Are you sure you’re going to do this?” I mean, I have this small studio. I work by myself. I tend to do things alone. This has just been so eye-opening, the benefit of letting other people in and also being there for other people.

That has kind of been a little bit of a surprising reward and that it feeds you to keep going when you are firing away a message that somebody else just had. One of our members just was in Time magazine. We were all just freaking out for her. Just those things of like that – I guess it’s that whole aspect of being part of a group, kind of, I was trepidatious about it and it’s just been so surprising in a great way of how good it’s been for me and how much I enjoy it.

[00:41:53] YD: Yeah. I think, what you’re talking about here, Ashley. At least that’s been my experience and my personal revelation on this path in the last year is that, when you surround yourself with people like that and you’re sharing together in the community, you are also practicing how to be abundant and how to think abundantly. Because at least, for me and [inaudible 00:42:17] different for others, at least for me.

What I’ve seen in the industry is that one of the reasons why people hesitate coming together is because of that scarcity thinking. If I have opportunities, if I have resources, if I have help, I owe it to myself because it’s such a hard industry, it’s such a competitive industry. We all have to compete. But I think, when we’re – this is basically a weekly, a daily practice for us to say, “No, there is more to go around for everyone.”

By the way, we don’t have to compete because look at how wonderfully different, and diverse we all are in what kind of stories we want to do, what kind of angles. That is to me also one of the most coolest things about The Circle is, when we have our monthly round-robin style brainstorming, pitch brainstorming session. I see every time when you guys bring all your ideas, I’m like, “Huh? I would have never thought of that.” Because I don’t think this way, because that’s not one of my interests or my angles or whatever. But every time, I’m blown away by all the ideas that you bring and it proves me every single time how diverse we are.

We’re absolutely not competing, absolutely, because our stories are so different. I think that’s one of the things that is also powerful about this experience.

[0:43:38] AB: I agree. There’s more than enough and everybody just – I always mess this little phrases. I mean, it’s like, all ships come in with the rising tide, I think is correct. It’s like, “Yeah, I agree. There’s nothing to worry about. There’s enough for everybody.” 

[00:43:51] YD: Definitely. Okay. How is it already almost an hour later, like what? How did that happen? It’s crazy. What would you say if someone who’s listening to the podcast, who is interested in becoming more creative, in following some of their curiosities, but again, has just so many thoughts about – and the reasons why it’s not the right time, it’s not the right path, maybe it’s too late for them, maybe they don’t have what it takes? What would you say to somebody like that?

[00:44:30] AB: That’s another big one, the whole it’s too late thing. I mean, it’s not too late, it’s never too late. I would say. I just loved the progression that I took where I started with the Storytellers in Action and then that just felt like this great base. I think too, same thing how I was saying, like find a group, find a class, find a leader. If someone that is just a way to surround yourself with other people, then I think that is – it’s an open door versus the closed-door right here. Okay. This is how – I can get there too, I’m going to do the same things. That’s been the biggest change for me, is just surrounding myself with people, and then taking the small steps. You have to do it. 

[00:45:14] YD: Yes. Sam, what do you think?

[00:45:15] SF: I think the first step is that you have to get out of your own way, which is easier said than done. But it goes back to what you’re saying before, Yulia, about perspective. That’s going to look different for everyone, but I think you need to sit down and think like how can I introduce that other perspective into my life, whether that’s – what Ashley just said, like joining a club or a class, finding some sort of resource online. Like for me, Clubhouse was really valuable, but it might not work for everyone or working with a coach or working with – it’s just a really close friend that you trust, that you’re just honest with, like someone that you know that’s in it before.

I think the very first baby step is, you need to get out of your own way and you need to get that perspective from someone else. Then, from there, you can figure out what do you need to take those incremental steps to get in that place where you feel secure and comfortable enough and inspired enough to just get started and just do it.

[00:46:15] YD: I love that. I love that both of you brought up taking the actual steps, because we didn’t spend a lot of time on it in this episode but, at the end of the day, what I always say, what separates where you want to be from where you are today is taking some sort of action and seeing what happens. There’s no other way around it. If we don’t do stuff, stuff doesn’t happen and finding a way –

Because we’re all different too, right? What helps one person might not help another. Some people prefer big groups. Some people prefer small groups or even working one-on-one with someone like you were saying, Sam, like a coach or somebody. But at the end of the they, find something that will help you get out of your own way like you said and start taking those actions. That’s basically the secret. We just gave you the secret to how creative life works. Get out of your own way, find support, and start doing small actions every day. Eventually, you will have a body of work to show and you will have learned so much in the process. That whole process will have changed you.

I’m a different person now than I was a year ago because of Genius Womxn, because of working with you guys, because of surrounding myself with all of you amazing people. I’m a different person now, like I see so many different possibilities that I haven’t even seen before, I wasn’t even aware of. I think that’s one of the biggest gifts we can give ourselves, is those possibilities and those – imagining something that you didn’t even think about before, that’s a beautiful gift.

Very excited that we have it and that I have you guys in my life and in our community. Both of you, like what you said earlier, Ashley, you share also. It’s not about getting something from the community. It’s about sharing your perspective and that’s healing and that’s powerful to other members as well. Both of you bring that in and I’m really grateful. Thank you, guys. Thank you both for today.

[00:48:22] SF: Thanks, Yulia.

[00:48:23] AB: Thank you, Yulia. Yeah, thank you. 

[00:48:25] YD: It’s so strange because I really want – I feel like we just started talking and now the hour is gone, like what happened? 

[00:48:34] SF: I’m like that when I listen to the podcast. I’m like, “Wait! What? We just – why are they leaving already?” 

[00:48:40] YD: I know. We just started getting into some really good things, but I know, people listening to this, hopefully this was helpful, hopefully this was inspiring. Again, if you’re sitting on the edge of the seat and you feel like there is an urge that you have, you want to pursue something, you want to start sharing your stories, your ideas, you want to try your hand at photography, whatever it is. The biggest thing I can tell you is that, find support and start doing things, whatever it is.

Of course, I always welcome everybody into The Circle and into our community. But at the end of the day, find something that works for you and start doing it, that’s the most important thing. Hope that this message resonated with everyone today.

Again, I thank Ashley and I thank Sam for your time, for your insights, for your wisdom and I will see you inside The Circle very, very soon.

[00:49:37] SF: Thank, Yulia.

[00:49:38] AB: Thanks, Yulia,

[END OF EPISODE]

[00:49:43] YD: Thank you so much for sharing an hour of your day with us today. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Ashley and Sam. If so, please consider leaving us a review so that more listeners could find our show. Like I mentioned at the top of episode, I can’t stress how important it is for us to get reviews of our podcast. It really helps to get in front of more people who might enjoy our show. If you’ve been inspired by something you heard today or in any other episodes of our show, please consider leaving us a review. That’s one of the best ways you can support our podcast.

I also wanted to mention that we now have a YouTube channel. If you’d rather prefer to watch the videos of our conversations, you can now go to youtube.com and search Genius Womxn and you’ll see our channel where we share our podcast in the video format. Finally, I invite you to join us in The Circle, our community is for you. If you’re interested in trouble and storytelling, wants to get your stories out there into the world, and are looking for support and encouragement on this journey, go to geniuswomxn.com/circle to learn more. That geniuswomxn.com/circle.

Thanks again and I’ll see you next week for a very special episode with travel photographer, writer, TEDx speaker, book author and amazing creator, Lola Akindmade Åkerström.

[END]