S8 E85: You’re Good Enough To Do This Work with Karthika Gupta

Get the show’s transcript

KG: “Once I slowly started feeling more confident, and I think learning my craft, understanding that yes, I do have a creative eye, I do see things a little differently than the average person does, and I capture that. And my work doesn't have to please everybody under the sun. So, it's being more comfortable in your skill and your skin to kind of confidently say who you are and what you do.” 

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:32] YD: Hey, everyone. Welcome back, everyone to Travel Media Lab Podcast. I'm your host, Yulia Denisyuk, an award-winning travel photographer, writer, storyteller, community builder, podcaster, and entrepreneur, working with publications like National Geographic Traveler, and the New York Times, and more, traveling interesting places around the world producing stories that I'm excited about.

Travel Media Lab is my platform for helping you break into the travel media space where we share insights, tips, advice, and stories from people working in the industry.

Happy International Women's month. Our mission inside this podcast has always been about uplifting women and inspiring more women to go after their own storytelling dreams. And in the two years that we've been podcasting, which is kind of hard to believe that it's been two years already, we've had so many incredible women in travel, come and share not only their wisdom, but also their fears, wins, struggles, hopes, and dreams with us.

This March, in honor of International Women's month, I wanted to bring back these conversations, some of the most poignant, heartfelt, and inspiring conversations we've ever had in our show.

In the next few episodes, you're going to hear from travel photographer and writer, and dear friend, Karthika Gupta, who works with publications like Condé Nast Traveler, Thrillist, and more. Our former student and Circle member, Vanessa Dewson, who has also been published in multiple publications, most recently in TripSavvy. Nikki Vargas, an amazing writer, and editor at photo struggle, who has a book coming out called, Call You When I Land. Lọlá Ákínmádé, a multitalented powerhouse or a female creator, who is just so, so inspiring to me and whose projects continue pushing the boundaries of travel media space. Last, but very much not so least, Sarah Han, an accomplished travel writer and editor, and a thoughtful traveler, who's currently working with Robb Report.

So, take a minute to listen to all of these episodes, and also connect with these amazing women on Instagram. We will have links in the show notes to all their accounts, so you can go and check out their work. I handpicked every one of these conversations because they impacted me personally when I interviewed these incredible women because I want to celebrate them, and their accomplishments, and also because I believe that listening to their stories can inspire you, their listeners to go out there and go for the stories, projects, and dreams that you want to pursue as well.

Just a quick note that in some of these episodes, you'll hear us refer to our podcast and platform as genius women. That used to be our name, but we changed to Travel Media Lab some time ago to better reflect the mission of our company. Happy International Women's month, and I hope you enjoy these episodes.

[EPISODE]

[00:03:33] YD: Karthika, I am so delighted to welcome you to our podcast. Karthika is a wonderful friend and a wonderful human, and I'm super excited to have you today with us in this conversation.

[00:03:48] KG: Thank you, Yulia. I am so excited to be here. I love everything that you do, and I can't wait to get this podcast and download it and listen to all the amazing interviews that I'm sure you've had so far.

[00:04:00] YD: Awesome. Awesome. I want to start where I always start these conversations, which is, tell me what was Karthika dreaming about as a kid?

[00:04:15] KG: That's a very interesting question. Gosh, as a kid, I was the complete brat of the house. I have an older sister and she's eight years older than me, so I still am the baby of the family. So, for me, my whole childhood was all about having fun. I was a complete tomboy. I would climb trees with my friends. I would be more interested in playing outside than studying and doing all my homework and all that fun stuff. My sister on the other hand was and is super brilliant. She's a straight-A student all throughout, and I was one of the back benches.

[00:04:56] YD: No way. I would have never guessed that.

[00:04:58] KG: Absolutely. I grew up in India. So, the education system is very different there. We had a class of about, oh, I would say like 50, 60, 70 kids. Imagine a room full of 60 kids and I went to a convent school. All girls coming to school. You have these rowdy backbenchers, who would just basically get passing grades and would be more interested in fun. That was me.

So, growing up, I had no aspirations. It's not like I wanted to become a doctor or a lawyer or anything like that. I just wanted to have fun. Being that I was – my parents had me eight years after my sister, they had all their hopes and aspirations built up on my sister, and I kind of slipped through the cracks. So yeah, I would get like 29th rank or like 35th rank, and my mom, who was a teacher, would freak out, but my dad would be like, “Oh, it's okay. It's okay. You'll figure it out. Don't worry.” I was just this kid who had no worries and I just wanted to have a good time.

[00:06:08] YD: That sounds amazing, actually. I think more kids or more people in their adulthood, I wish would remember their childhood in that way, right? As a kid having fun.

[00:06:19] KG: Yeah. It's funny. It's like now that I have kids of my own, that is so not how I am. I am this Super Eight Mil helicopter kind of parent, and I have to consciously tell myself, “Back off. This is not how you were. This is not how you grew up.” So, it's funny, we sometimes forget. This is a good reminder, actually.

[00:06:37] YD: Yes. In our podcast conversations, people have told me that already. They're like therapy sessions for our guests. That's coming, get ready, get ready. But tell me what was it like – you mentioned that you grew up in India, what was then known as Bombay, right? What was it like growing up there?

[00:06:57] KG: It was fantastic. And I feel it's fantastic now because I'm not there. I'm so far away from home. But Bombay is such a cosmopolitan, vibrant, loud city. You cannot help but be sucked into all that energy. Even if you don't do anything, even if you're just standing still, you soak up all the vibrations and all the energy and you just feel alive.

For me, Bombay has always been this epicenter of energy and doing things and exploring and having fun and eating out and just living life to the fullest. They say that Bombay is like the city of dreams because it's the financial capital of India. It has been for the longest time. People come to Bombay because they want to make something for themselves. They want to have a life, they want to earn money, and they want to support their family. So, there's always this influx of migrant population, people moving from all parts of India and abroad to Bombay, to get that experience.

That's how childhood for me was too. It was being surrounded by all those people. Like I said, being in a class of 60 students. I had a ton of friends. I lived in a, we called a colony, because my dad used to work for one of the big insurance companies in India. So, they would give apartments to all their employees. We had this huge colony of, I don't know, maybe like 2,000 families. It was really spread out. I had friends, I had all these neighbors and friends in life outside school, and then I had all these friends in school.

It was just a very happy, community-centric lifestyle. So, I grew up with a lot of people around me and everybody is in everybody's face. Everybody's in everybody's business. Everybody knows what's going on in your house, like your neighbors. The doors are always open, at least when I was growing up, right? The doors were always open. Your neighbor's mom was, you would call her auntie, and the husband would be the uncle, and it was even though they were not related, you would end up kind of living in your friend's homes, and food would be exchanged. The proverbial can I get some salt? Can I get some sugar? That was all normal. That's how it worked.

[00:09:09] YD: I missed that.

[00:09:10] KG: I know. I missed that too. Now, where I live, if I see my neighbor once a week, that's a big deal. So, it's a big adjustment for sure, coming from a place like Bombay to here.

[00:09:24] YD: I want to definitely get into your journey and knowing that you are now based in Chicago, how that transition happened. But what I want to ask you first is, I'm curious, were there any women that inspired you or impacted you in a significant way when you were growing up?

[00:09:43] KG: I'm going to be very biased and I'm going to say the biggest influencer in my life has been my mom. My mom came from Chennai, which is another city in India, from the south. That's where I'm from. She grew up in a big family. She’s the eldest of seven. She went to school, not learning or speaking English. She got married to my dad when she was like 20. She left everything that she knew her family, her relatives and moved to Bombay with my dad. My dad had lost both his parents very young. So, it was just him and his twin brother.

Here's my mom coming from this huge family to this solitary existence. She had to learn the language. Hindi, which was the national language of India was not something that she knew before coming. She had to navigate a whole new city. She was educated and everything, but everything was so new for her. When I would hear stories of my parents, how they survived, how they lived, how my mom went from the eldest daughter of a household to the woman of the household, I'm amazed at the tenacity, just the sheer willpower to make a life

Then, 11 months later, my sister came. So, when my mom was barely 21, she already had a kid. Navigating motherhood alone was not something that she, I think, had ever thought she would do. But it's just all these life experiences that I heard often. I learned firsthand from my mom. I would just wonder. Even now, I wonder how she did it. Because when I faced some of these challenges, I'm like, “Oh, my God.” My first thought always is like, “What would mom have done?” And then my sister too, my sister is an incredibly strong person. She's gone through a lot in life. She's battled breast cancer. She survived.

All of that stuff, too, for my sister, just watching these two women has been such an incredible way for me to get strength. Of course, there are a lot of other people too. But I guess my role models have always been my mom, and my sister. And along the way came friends and family. I’m very close to my husband's sister. She's also an incredibly strong person. And just her whole outlook in life is so refreshing that when I struggle, these are the three people that my mind immediately goes to.

[00:12:02] YD: It's so beautiful. And knowing you, you are an incredibly strong person as well. I'm seeing that thread that comes from your childhood and from observing, and taking in the role models that you were surrounded with. That's so important. It's wonderful that you had that example in your life. That's amazing. So, tell us then, so you were growing up in India, and now you're in the US. Walk us through that path. How did that happen?

[00:12:36] KG: Quite a journey. When I was talking about my childhood, I mentioned that my mom was a teacher. So, for both my parents, education has always been a very important part of life. My dad was an actuary. In fact, he was one of the few actuaries when he was in school and stuff, who passed all the exams from the British schooling system the first go, and he’s super brilliant. I think he and his brother came second and third or something all over the world. He's brilliant a mathematician. Just numbers for him, numbers in his head would take three seconds or less.

And then my mom was a teacher, so education was very important. One of the things my parents wanted both girls to do was to come abroad for higher education. So, my sister has a couple of degrees and so do I. It was just one of those things I was given that as soon as we finished our undergraduate, we would go abroad for graduate studies. I think it paved – for me, it was a little easier because my sister was already here in the US. So, it was almost like a given that I would follow along and I would come here for my master's.

[00:13:43] YD: How did you decide what it is that you're going to study?

[00:13:47] KG: That is a very good question. Now, things are obviously very different even in India now. A lot more opportunities and a lot more avenues for a person to have a career. But when I was in school, it was primarily three different paths. You could either do medicine, you could do law, or you could do engineering. Everything else was like fluff and on the side. So, given that my sister was so brilliant, and she was always like the top A student. At some point, expectations changed. Not just expectations, I think, even I started enjoying school, enjoying education, and I still do. I love to learn. I would go back for another degree if I could.

So, once I started getting into that mindset that, “Hey, this is fun. This is something I enjoy.” I started getting good grades. I got into an engineering program. I did computer science, so it was a de facto that, okay, since I have an engineering degree in computer science, I would be doing a Master's in Computer Science. The minimum degree requirement in my household was a master's degree. There were no questions asked. It was just like, “This is what you're going to do.” Both us girls did not fight it. It was something we both enjoyed. So, I think it became a little easier as well.

That's how I made my way here to the States. My sister was, like I said, my sister was already here, she had already graduated, she was married, she was working. At least I knew somebody, and how I got into Illinois State was just one of those chance things. I wanted a school that was more application based, and not a lot of theory, that was not my forte. So, Illinois State University was one of the schools that offered a Master's in Applied Computer Science, and that was what I wanted to do. It's also a school that had good funding. So, I knew that the chances for me for getting an assistantship of some sort was higher because definitely my parents couldn't afford to send me to school for two years, and pay those fees, as well as boarding, and all of that stuff.

I had to make a conscious decision on choosing something that maybe was not the top most ranking school, but at least was a school that was good, that had a good reputation, and that I could get funding to pursue this two-year degree. That's how I made my way, 8,000 miles away.

[00:16:06] YD: And you ended up pursuing an MBA, as far as I know, sometime later as well, right?

[00:16:10] KG: Yes, yes. Like I said, if I could do another degree, I probably would. It's just –I started right after my master's. I got into the workforce. I was in corporate. I was on the IT side. And then I started getting pulled into the business side. It was a natural progression, a natural pivot. I really enjoyed it. Somewhere along the line, I was very intrigued by this whole MBA concept. My sister has an MBA. I was like, “Oh, I wonder what that would look like.” Lucky for us, being in Chicago, we have two of the top schools in the country.

I actually graduated from the University of Chicago with an MBA and it was definitely a very different experience than being in my 20s, and going through school, because now I was working. Even the caliber of students was different. It was a wonderful experience. I have no regrets about either of my degrees.

[00:17:00] YD: Absolutely. It's so interesting for me to hear you say kind of what was guiding you and motivating you at the time, because what I heard is that this was a natural next step, and you were curious, and you were interested. It's so interesting to me that there are so many different paths or so many different factors that put us on our paths because I also got an MBA. But for me, it wasn't because it was a natural progression, or because I was curious. It was because I had no idea what I was supposed to do in life at that point. I looked at my options at that point, too. I was like, “Well, I finished my military service at that time.” I'm like, “What do I do next? I have no idea. So, might as well go get an MBA.” Just so many different ways into it.

[00:17:48] KG: It's funny. So much of my childhood was this mindset or mentality of rock the boat and see what happens. And then somewhere in my 20s, it was more like don't rock the boat. Just hold on. Just be steady. Just follow the path.

[00:18:04] YD: We lose that. We lose that ability as we get older now.

[00:18:08] KG: Yes, yes. Now, I have to say, I'm back into that rock the boat. I don't give a damn about what happens. I’ll figure out how I can – I don’t even know how to swim. But I'm like, have the mindset that, “hey, if I fall in, I know how to float. So, I should be okay.”

[00:18:25] YD: I love that. I love that so much. I think you just really crystallized for us this whole process of becoming wiser with the years.

[00:18:34] KG: I don’t know about that. But I think my husband will have something completely different to say about it.

[00:18:43] YD: Actually, even – let me put a finer point on it because it's maybe not so much about becoming wiser, but growing into your skin more and growing more confident with years, right? Because in your 20s, you're really relying on those guideposts to tell you what your next step should be. And then later on, that's actually what I'm loving so much about growing older, which in our society, growing older is written with so many different scares, right? For women, especially, right? It's a process that is full of ticking bombs, let's say. But this is one point that I really hold on to, as I'm 36 right now, that I hold on to, because the confidence that I'm discovering in myself and how I'm stepping into my skin, I love that. I would never want to go back to my 20s when I was so unsure of myself.

[00:19:30] KG: Yeah, for sure. I wonder if this is something that is because of who we are. We’re both immigrants, right? So, when I was in my 20s, I was so far away from home, I had so little money. I had the commitment to get an education that I had made to my parents and myself and I was just trying to find my feet. So much of it was also nerves that, “Oh, my god, what if I fail? Oh, my god, what if I don't do what I set out to do, what I told them I would do?” So, you tend to be less risky when you are trying to figure out where your next meal is coming from.

In some cases, it is very literal. I had an assistantship of 500 bucks, of 600 bucks. I had to pay the rent. I had to buy all my supplies. I had to feed myself. I remember getting a shitty old bike from a student that I paid like 40 bucks, thinking, “Oh, my God, that's 40 bucks. How am I going to afford it?” But that was what I had to get from when I was living off campus to campus. So much of it is also those fears that we have that we don't want to mess up. We take the path of least resistance just to keep going. And as we age, and as we mature, as you said, as we have a little bit more confidence in who we are, we want to take those risks, and we want to say, “Heck, you know what? I'm going to walk out without a coat.” It wouldn't be the smartest decision. But let's see what happens.

[00:20:55] YD: But I will own it.

[00:20:57] KG: Exactly. So, I think some of that Daredevil attitude also comes from just life experiences, and like you said, age.

[00:21:04] YD: I actually want to also unpack a little bit what you said about the dilemma, or I guess the predicament that as you so well said, many immigrants find themselves in because this is a very real thing, right? We immigrants, we have this often, unspoken agreement with our families, that by coming to America, we will follow the path and we will make it here no matter what, in the most traditional sense of the word. When some of us become crazy enough to step out of that path, that traditional path, specifically for the immigrant population, is wrought with perhaps more challenges than for others, because of that unspoken commitment that we have made to our families.

[00:21:50] KG: Absolutely, absolutely. And it never goes away. I know, in the intro, you said I'm a photographer, but that's not what my career path has been. I had these degrees, I worked in corporate for almost 15 years. And then, for me to get up and shift a whole 180 and start down a path of being a creative and being a photographer was insane. I can't even imagine. I mean, I know what I was feeling. I know what my sort of internal thought process was. But my mom, my family, they freaked out. It was like, “Wait, what? You have a six-figure salary. You have been in corporate for so long. You're ready to become a senior level, senior manager, or whatever, get on to the senior level, why are you quitting? And what is this photography? And where is this coming from?”

It was crazy. It was something that took a while. Even though it was clear in my head, it took a while for me to articulate what that was going to look like. It took a while for me to share even with my mom because I was so scared that she would kind of be upset because this is not what she envisioned for me.

[00:23:08] YD: Yes. Gosh, there are so many questions I want to ask you about this, so many. First of all, you started or you actually went on that traditional path, let's call it, for quite some time after your MBA. You mentioned that you were working in corporate. As I was, we have a lot of related threads in our stories. So, tell us a little bit about the moment where you realize as you're sitting in that corporate office, you know what, I'm just going to burn this whole thing and pick up the camera, and this is who I am now. Was there a moment? Or was it a more gradual realization for you?

[00:23:47] KG: There were a series of moments. I'm probably a little bit of an oddball in that I actually really loved what I did. I was in marketing. I was working for Citibank, which was one of my dream companies. Don't ask me why. But one of my dream companies when I was growing up, and when I was in school. I wanted to work for a bank. Again, don't ask me why. I wanted to work for a bank.

So, for me to get a job at Citibank right out of my MBA was like a dream come true. I really enjoyed the people I worked with, I enjoyed very much the work that I did. But I think somewhere along the line, there was always this thing of me versus them, us versus them. That's a whole other discussion. We won't go there. But I just felt a lot of instances where, who I was, the color of my skin, where it come from, was held a little bit against me. I changed managers and I got pretty crappy performance reviews, even though I had been doing the same job for almost four years. I knew the ins and outs of that job like the back of my head, and then to get a performance review that said it was a learning experience, really kind of pulled me down.

There was that going, which probably wouldn't have by itself pushed me to quit. But I was also doing photography. I picked up a camera when my kids were born, as a way for me to connect with my family, and share sort of these moments because the whole digital cameras were just getting started. So, with a click of a button, download the picture, and instantly it can be shared. That was very interesting for me and I was getting to exercise a part of my brain that I hadn't before. I wasn't creative in that traditional sense where I couldn't draw, I couldn't paint, I couldn't color, I hated cooking. I still do.

None of those traditionally creative things were me. But when I picked up the camera, it was like some part of my brain shifted, and I really enjoyed that. That was the other thing that was going for me in this whole move. Lastly, my mom got diagnosed with breast cancer as well. So, that was a big blow for my sister and I. She had just gone through her chemo, and she was finally out of the woods. And then boom, my mom gets diagnosed. She was not enough in her state of mind or physical capabilities to take care of my mom. I decided that I would go.

All these things, it just seemed like one after the other was pointing to a shift, was pointing for me to take that leap of faith and just go. That's essentially what I did. I stepped away for a month and a half after I quit. In fact, the day I quit, the next day, I flew out to India to be with my mom for about a month. And that's where I started having these discussions with my mom that, “Hey, I want to quit. I want to try this whole new thing called entrepreneurship and see where that takes me.” The weird part of it is we don't have any entrepreneurs in my family. I'm talking about my family, my immediate family, and my extended family. No one. Of course, my mom was freaking out in between her chemo sessions like, “How are you going to support yourself? What are you going to do? Do you know this business side of everything? What is this photography? You don't have a degree in it.”

All these questions and I was like, “Hey, you know what, I have an MBA, maybe I should put it to good use and try to run this business. And if it doesn't work out, sure, it doesn't work out, at least I tried.” I think, that again goes back to what we were talking about earlier. A little bit of that confidence, and that sort of daredevil attitude, that you know what, try it. If it doesn't work, you can always go back to what you were doing before.

[00:27:29] YD: Absolutely. I think for me, also, what I heard is that or actually, what I think about this process, because it's based on my experience as well of quitting and doing a 180 in one's life, that process of drastically changing your environment as you went back to India, and even though that was an environment that was familiar for you, still, as you were trying to figure out what's next for you, you shifted, and you changed environments, and you were in a closed consult with someone whom you trust, someone whom you respect, which is your mother. That, I think, also has probably helped you to step into this path more confidently.

You mentioned that you didn't really have any women in your family or any anybody in your family who was in this field of entrepreneurship. So, I'm curious, as you were starting on this new path, did you see any woman out there? Not in your family, necessarily, but just in your surrounding who was doing something similar or who was trying to find the path, the new path as well? And if so, how did that help you? Did you notice something special about them? Or kind of helped you figure out what it could look like?

[00:28:43] KG: Sure. Yes and no. I think, the first year and a half was just me floundering and trying to figure things out. Yes, there were a lot of other women photographers, but I found very few immigrants or rather, Indian immigrant photographers, women in my sphere of influence. I'm not talking about somewhere in another part of the country. I'm talking about where I live.

Some of it was not totally relatable, and then sometimes, as business owners, and I don't know if it's more women, but sometimes as business owners, we feel like – we almost feel threatened that what if I also connect with another photographer? And what if I share some of my ideas and they steal it? So, we tend to hold on to our ideas, hold on to this mindset that I'm the best of the best, and I shouldn't share, encourage, or lean on somebody else who's done this before. That quickly changed for me, because again, I had nobody to ask these questions. I was looking for groups or other women who were in this entrepreneurial space, who could guide me and just talk to me about – sometimes it was just tactical things, right? How do I register my business? How do I set up the tax ID and things like that? Should I be an LLC? Or should I be a C Corp? What does that look like?

Sometimes it was just like, “Oh, my God, how do I get clients? How do I market?” What you learn in school, in business school, and in the classroom environment is so very different from what you experience when you are in life, in a real-life situation. So, I found groups, I found one amazing group. It's called Women Entrepreneurs, Secrets of Success, and they're still existing today. And it was a small group of a bunch of women who would just meet for breakfast on a Friday morning or a Thursday morning, and just share what they were doing, who they were, and just as a way to make friends in this entrepreneurial sphere. It wasn't about getting business from each other. It was more about getting to know each other as women so we could support one another.

I think that was one of the best decisions I made to open up that email. Because I have some incredible friends from that group. We've supported each other. A lot of them have become clients in some way, shape, or form. And it's just great to know that that community exists. I'm talking about a few years back, and so now you obviously have more things, more resources, things like what you are doing, with The Circle, where you have this space, where you can come be yourself and you will not be judged, you will be supported, irrespective of what your industry is.

I feel like that concept is catching on. As women, we are even opening ourselves up to make friends. You know how difficult it is once you grow up, and to make any sort of friends and even girlfriends, it's really hard. Also, now, you take it up a notch where it's like a business relationship. But then you realize that it shouldn't be a business relationship. It should be a friend relationship, because people will always do business and, and buy and support people that they like and trust and know.

[00:32:01] YD: There are two things that I want to pull out of that. One is what you said about women and business owners in general, being afraid to share, to exchange ideas, and feeling they have to kind of stick it out on their own because others will steal their ideas. I'm doing some work right now on anti-oppression, and this feeling of scarcity, and that we are alone and we cannot share, and that there are not enough resources for everyone and that there are not enough ideas. So, I have to hold my idea close to me. That's one way that oppression manifests itself in society.

So, when we're retraining ourselves to think differently, to think abundantly, to recognize that sharing resources, and sharing ideas, is an active form of anti-oppression. I'm getting goosebumps when I think about it because I've definitely been there. And I've definitely felt that way, “Oh, my god, somebody's going to steal my idea” Or, “I'm competing with all these other women out there” and recognizing that it's not even so much that you are thinking that, it's the way society puts these oppression systems around you to keep your thinking that way, and then fighting against that. I think that's incredibly important.

And then the other thing that you said, which is something that – is a word that is being so used so much, that it’s almost starting to lose this meaning. Our eyes are kind of glazing over when we hear the word community. But man, how important that word is, and how important – it's almost, to me, actually, based on my experience, and based on all the stories that I'm hearing so far on this podcast is that having that structure and that support of people who get what you're trying to do and why is almost like a make or break situation. Meaning that you are that much more likely to stick through this difficult journey when you have that support, and you have that community. But we don't recognize that for some – I think a lot of us are still in that mode of, “I have to prove it, that I can do it alone.”

[00:34:23] KG: Yes. Some of that is just cultural. Some of that is your upbringing, and some of that is just influences that you've had around you, right? I mean, like I said, I was growing up, I had all these friends and I had all these people around me. But when I was in some of my more sort of influential years, I was alone or I would do things by myself. I had my head down to the ground, and I will just churn, churn, churn, and be done with my own stuff.

Initially, when I started, I found myself so very alone, that my husband had no idea and I would just talk to him and I'd be like, I have all these questions for him, and he'd be like, “I don't know. I don't know and I don't have the time to research this with you. You'd have to figure this out.” Then, when I found this circle, this community, it was a nonjudgmental place. And I think I really appreciated that. Because, I mean, my questions are stupid. Some of my questions were so stupid. I had clients, even before I knew how to properly work my camera. I had my camera on the automatic setting, and I will take pictures, and then I would ask questions, “Wait, how do I edit this? How do I change this?” It was just so much. And that, again, manifested itself in terms of fear of, “Oh, my God. I'm being such a fake. I'm a professional photographer and I don't even know how to operate my own camera.”

[00:35:49] KG: “Why are people paying me for this job?”

[00:35:51] KG: Exactly. Why are people paying me? And these are all valid questions, and it’s not just something photographers ask. It's something every business owner asks. You go to a restaurant, and you're like, “Okay, why are people coming in and eating at my restaurant when I don't even know how to cook?” You just replace those keywords and it's applicable to every entrepreneur who starts.

The other thing is like, yes, this community word is thrown out there so much. But I think what we have to realize is that community doesn't always mean a horde of people. Sometimes your community can be just one other person, and that person has your back. So, it's just how we think about the word, versus what perception we have of that word, and it might be different for different people. But you're so right, in that we have to learn that there is no reason why we need to do this alone. It's easier said than done. Trust me. You and I have had conversations where --

[00:36:53] YD: Yes, we have.

[00:36:56] KG: I'm not following that logic at all. But for the most part, I think it's a great way to pivot yourself back from the deep end, to know that somebody out there has your back. And somebody out there is willing to do what it takes to help you. Whether that's one person, five people, or 20 people, it doesn't matter, as long as in your head, you have that resource.

[00:37:21] YD: Absolutely. I think especially for paths like this, right? The creative paths, the paths that are wrought with so much uncertainty, and so much of trying to figure it out as you go, where the rules aren't clear. There isn't a corporation behind you to fall back on. There isn't a salary behind you to fall back on. It's just so, so important. I want to talk a little bit about the challenges on this path, right? Because I think that a lot of time we hear this, she's a photographer, she's an entrepreneur, and it's very aspirational and it's amazing. But I also want to give space to the challenges, which are many.

[00:38:09] KG: So, for me, the biggest challenge that I still face sometimes today, although I feel I'm getting better at it, is the challenge of self-worth. Because I don't have a degree in photography. Because I didn't study it in a formal setting.

[00:38:26] YD: Because we need, in our system of oppression, we need those formal --

[00:38:30] KG: Yes, that justification, right? We in our minds, we tell ourselves, “Oh, we wouldn't go to a doctor unless they had a degree. Why would we go to our photographer unless they have qualifications?” But sometimes that doesn't quite apply. The more I think about it, the more I feel like, maybe I would just ask my grandma how to make this headache disappear, rather than popping in aspirin. Even though she's not a doctor, she really knows what's going on.

It's just this whole concept of not being good enough. I think that's what I struggled with initially. Am I good enough? I would not put my work out there. I would not promote myself. I would not call myself a professional photographer. I would say, “Oh, I'm in between jobs.” Or, “I'm staying home with the kids for a while.” Once I slowly started feeling more confident, I think learning my craft, and understanding that yes, I do have a creative eye. I do see things a little differently than the average person does, and I capture that. And my work doesn't have to please everybody under the sun. I just need X number of clients who love what I do, who love what I do for who I am, to make it profitable.

I think, once I started getting those semantics right in my head, I started telling everybody, what do you do? “Oh, I'm a photographer. Yes, I'm a professional photographer. I do this and this.” Now, I say, “I'm a podcaster. I have a podcast.” Being more comfortable in your skill and your skin, to confidently say, who you are and what you do. So, for me, that was the biggest challenge that I had coming from my background of a complete techie, geeky stuff, to this field where there's no such thing as a bad photograph. Everything is art. It just depends on who sees it.

[00:40:24] YD: Absolutely. I love what you said so much because this is an issue that, again, in my experience, and in my conversation with other women, so many of us experience this self-doubt, this feeling that we're not good enough for any kind of, I guess, work that's outside of the norm. For me, it's always also the question in my head has been, “Who are you to pursue this frivolous journey of creativity, of expression, of freedom? Who are you to do that? Who gave you the right?” Gosh, so many issues that are bubbling up on the surface when you're stepping into this path bravely,

[00:41:13] KG: For sure. I have kids. So, I have two impressionable minds that I interact with on a day-to-day basis. For me, I'm also trying to make sure that what I'm feeling and what thoughts I'm communicating are having the right effect on them, because I don't want them to feel like if my son loves sports, and if he wants to have a career in sports, I don't want him to feel like he's not good enough. My daughter loves art. So, she's doing a lot of creative artwork, and I don't want her to feel like, so what if it's not the caliber of going on into a gallery? That doesn't mean it's bad.

I think, again, the whole thing that we talked about earlier as you age, you mature a little bit. It's also, that is playing in my head, that I have to be very conscious of my thoughts and how I project those thoughts onto my kids because I don't want them to feel like they're not good enough to do whatever they want to do.

[00:42:19] YD: Absolutely, absolutely. Guys, I feel like that is also – this could be a whole other episode on its own, this conversation. But I want to move into what you're doing now. Because what you're working on right now is something super exciting, and I know you've been building this platform for some time. So, I want you to tell us and to share with us what kind of – what lights you up in this moment and the CulturallyOurs platform? And what are you excited about? COVID, notwithstanding, because, of course, this is a difficult moment for all of us. But just wondering if there's some joy that you're finding in the work that you're doing right now as well?

[00:43:06] KG: Sure. So, like you mentioned, CulturallyOurs is something that I started a couple of years ago, and you've been on the podcast as well.

[00:43:15] YD: Yes, I have.

[00:43:16] KG: So, for me, CulturallyOurs has been a wonderful expression of who I am, where I come from, my past, my present, and where my life is headed. It's an amalgamation of stories from people all around the world as they do life. So, we talk about art, we talk about food, we talk about culture, travel, and lifestyle. It is just a way for us to connect with each other on a very personal, intimate level.

So, it's personal perspectives, personal narratives, personal opinions, because a lot of times, I would feel like I wouldn't say what I truly felt because I was afraid. And in that fear, I wouldn't say anything. I feel like a lot of us are like that. We don't want to rock the boat. We don't want to say something that might offend somebody. So, we don't say anything, and sometimes that makes the other person feel even more alone, even more isolated.

We have all these beautiful cultures all around us, all over the world, so let's create this space where we can share all those cultures in a very, very touchy feeling, sort of way. That's what CulturallyOurs is. It's a platform, like you said, where we share these stories. We have blog posts, and a podcast of the same name, where again, we interview people like yourself and other people around the world, where they talk about different topics. And then, we also have travel retreats that we do, where we take these immersive experiences so they can really understand the culture, really understand the people. It's not about checking things off this proverbial bucket list that everybody has, but it's actually going deep down and engaging with communities.

Obviously now, with COVID, that's on hold. Hopefully 2021, 2022 that picks up. But still, I think it's just, the responses have so far been great. It's been something that motivates me, like you said. What lights you up. That's what lights me up every day when I get to talk to people. When I get to connect with somebody in Japan, they talk about this incredible festival that they're having. And then I realized that, “Hey, you know what? Something very similar is happening in Peru, or something very similar is happening in India.” So, we really are, we're all the same.

We have the same goals, we have the same aspirations, and we have the same things that we want out of life. Sure, the external package might be a little different, in terms of the way we look, the way we dress, or the way we speak. But deep down, we're all the same, and we're all connected in some way. So, that's what CulturallyOurs does, it creates that connection.

[00:45:52] YD: Yes. For our listeners, go and check out CulturallyOurs. It's an amazing platform with wonderful stories. If you love to travel as I do, and as Karthika does, then you will appreciate it so much. And I also want to say, that I hope I get to be in one of the retreats that you put together, Karthika. We’ve been talking about it for so long now. Hopefully, soon.

[00:46:16] KG: I know. I know.

[00:46:18] YD: Amazing. Tell me, if you were able to write a letter to Karthika when she was just starting out on this creative path, what would you tell her?

[00:46:30] KG: Oh. I would say stick it out. All things happen for a reason. If it's meant to happen, it will happen. I know, I tend to talk a lot in quotes, maybe it's the mother in me. But I have been known to kind of throw these quotes at my kids and they just roll their eyes. “Roll your eyes. There's a lot of depth and meaning to this.” But it's true and be fearless and trust. Trust in the universe. I think that's my biggest thing that trust that there is something or some higher power or something, some energy out there that is looking out for you.

So, no matter what things will get better. There is light at the end of the tunnel. I told you I talk in quotes. I tell myself this all the time and I do go down. We've all dealt with COVID for the past six months in a variety of different ways. Some of us have had it harder than others. But at the end of the day, it will get better. Things may not look like how they did or how you envisioned them to look like. But maybe that's okay. That's for the better. The outcome will be better than what you anticipated, as long as you put in the work, you do the work, and you're telling yourself that every day when you get up, you will do one, two, three. Whatever that number is, X things towards your goal, and you keep moving, success will eventually get to you.

I do want to preface this by saying that sometimes it's easier because I do have a spouse and I have a spouse who's working. Some of it is also, for me, that I have a little bit of that security, that at the end of the day, we'll have food on the table. I can take some of these risks. I know that's not always the case with everybody. I do want to preface, as much as I like all my quotes and things like that, they may not apply to everybody. But the point is that, keep at it, keep at it, and find ways to make it work, if it's truly your passion, then find ways to make it work and it'll work.

[00:48:50] YD: Yes. I couldn't agree more with everything that you just said. I think for me, I have this unwavering belief that if you put in the work, and if you advance and take little steps towards your dream vision, every day, little by little, it will come and it will just be then a matter of time, as long as you keep progressing. If you don't take steps then it will not materialize, to me, that's just like physics, in a way.

[00:49:26] KG: Yeah, isn't it like, an object in motion, stays in motion?

[00:49:31] YD: Exactly. So, it’s just finding that, whatever that looks like for you, finding that structure, I guess, that allows you to keep going. It looks different for all of us. Maybe it means that you quit – for me it meant quitting the corporate job, which sucked up all my time and energy. Finding jobs in between that could still allow me to put food on the table, while I focus on building the dream. There are so many different ways to shape that. But whatever that structure is, that allows you to keep taking those steps, to find that, and to keep going.

[00:50:10] KG: You don't have to fit somebody else's timetable. Having a successful business could mean a 10-year run, or it could mean a one-year run. It doesn't matter. As long as you are achieving, and moving toward what you want it to look like. It will change. I mean, my business now looks nothing like what it did when I first started. But that's okay. Because along the way, I learned what works for me. I learned what does not work for me. I learned where I want to invest my time. I quickly learned that I did not want to give up my summer weekends photographing weddings, even though they bring in a lot more money. Because a mom role was a little bit more priority than that.

Those decisions switched through the years, right? It looks different for everybody. I think that's the beauty of it, that nobody – there's only one you. It's just, you are unique, and so your journey has to be unique.

[00:51:21] YD: Absolutely. I think that's actually a great segue into our closing question, which I always end with. It's a big question. But how would you start thinking about it? What does it mean to be a woman who is stepping into her brilliance today?

[00:51:40] KG: Oh, that is a big one. Gosh, for me, I go back to my mom. She is the epitome of a woman stepping into her brilliance throughout her life. It wasn't just one moment. It wasn't just when she got married. It wasn't just when she had a baby. It wasn't when she went back to school and became a teacher. It wasn't when she had me. It wasn't when she lost my dad. It was so many things. I think, how you face challenges is how you step into your brilliance. It can look different based on each of those challenges.

I've seen my mom ecstatic when she got to teach in a different country. That was one of her goals, to not just teach in India, but also teach in a different country. She actually did. She was a teacher in Malaysia for several years. She went very high, almost to the next level to an assistant principal in an international school. So, I saw her stepping into her brilliance there. I saw her stepping into her brilliance when she got diagnosed and she actually sent my sister in me an email, telling us that she had been diagnosed because she thought we would freak out if she was to tell us on the phone. I think that took incredible courage. She's really stepped into her brilliance in my mind there, the way she handled it.

For me, whenever I find these moments where I'm forced to step outside my comfort zone, to maybe what is my brilliance. I tried to lean on how she would react, right? She took everything in her stride and made the most of it, and I feel like that's how I want to emulate. That's how I would tell somebody and I tell this to my daughter too. She's on the swim team. When she didn't make varsity, I was like, “It's all right there. You can step into the junior varsity space and do the best you can. Just be confident and know that you have what it takes to be successful.”

[00:53:51] YD: I think this is great advice for anyone looking to do anything with their lives, right? Take it in stride and do the best you can. That's really all we can ask for.

[00:54:04] KG: There's not there's nothing else you can do. You can moan and bitch and scream and talk about how unfair it is and all of that stuff, but it is what it is. Was it absolutely unfair that my mom got diagnosed just when we were coming out of the throngs of my sister’s diagnosis? Absolutely. I could have kicked and screamed. I mean, I did I did kick and scream and cry and everything, and I'm sure she did as well. But at some point, you pick yourself up and you say, “Okay, what is my next step? What can I do to keep going forward?” Sometimes it is as simple as that. You find the courage. You find the confidence. You find the tenacity to say, “Hell with it. I'm going to do this.”

[00:54:49] YD: Karthika, thank you so much for this wonderful interview.

[00:54:55] KG: Thank you, Yulia. It was such a pleasure. I hope I didn't ramble on too much. But thank you so much for having me. I'm really very excited to see everything The Circle has to offer, and I think it's brilliant that you're creating a space where again, women can come together and just shine and be who they are to the best of their abilities.

[OUTRO]

[00:55:18] YD: Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed this conversation we're bringing back to celebrate the multi-talented women who have come to our show over the years. If so, I want to ask you to please now, take a minute to support our show. You can do that by leaving us a rating or a review on an Apple podcast app or any other app that you're listening this podcast on, or by sharing this episode with your friends, your loved ones, maybe posting about it on social media. It really, really helps us get discovered by more listeners that would find our show helpful, and it means so much to me.

I read every single review we get and I take them very seriously because I want to create a great show for you. So, if you've been inspired by something you heard today or in any other episodes of our show, please take just a minute to support it, by leaving us a rating or review. This is one of the best ways you can help us out. Thank you so much for listening again and stay tuned for next week.

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