S8 E86: How to Get Your Pitch Accepted with Vanessa Dewson

Get the show’s transcript

VD: “Seeing other people succeed and think, “Okay, well, if we all kind of started around the same time, my turn should come soon.” It finally did. So, I think I started pitching in early January, and I finally got my first. Yes, I think it was last week. I got two in the same week and so, pretty exciting. And then I got another one this week. I feel pretty much on cloud nine right now.”

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:22] YD: Hey, everyone. Welcome back, everyone, to Travel Media Lab Podcast. I'm your host, Yulia Denisyuk, an award-winning travel photographer, writer, storyteller, community builder, podcaster, and entrepreneur, working with publications like National Geographic Traveler and the New York Times, and more, traveling interesting places around the world producing stories that I'm excited about.

Travel Media Lab is my platform for helping you break into the travel media space where we share insights, tips, advice, and stories from people working in the industry.

Happy International Women's month. Our mission inside this podcast has always been about uplifting women and inspiring more women to go after their own storytelling dreams. And in the two years that we've been podcasting, which is kind of hard to believe that it's been two years already, we've had so many incredible women in travel, come and share not only their wisdom, but also their fears, wins, struggles, hopes, and dreams with us.

This March, in honor of International Women's month, I wanted to bring back these conversations, some of the most poignant, heartfelt, and inspiring conversations we've ever had in our show.

In the next few episodes, you're going to hear from travel photographer and writer, and dear friend, Karthika Gupta, who works with publications like Condé Nast Traveler, Thrillist, and more. Our former student and Circle member, Vanessa Dewson, who has also been published in multiple publications, most recently in TripSavvy. Nikki Vargas, an amazing writer and editor at Fodor’s Travel, who has a book coming out called, Call You When I Land. Lola Akinmade, a multitalented powerhouse of a female creator, who is just so, so inspiring to me and whose projects continue pushing the boundaries of travel media space. Last but very much not so least, Sarah Han, an accomplished travel writer and editor, and a thoughtful traveler, who's currently working with Robb Report.

So, take a minute to listen to all of these episodes, and also connect with these amazing women on Instagram. We will have links in the show notes to all their accounts, so you can go and check out their work. I handpicked every one of these conversations because they impacted me personally when I interviewed these incredible women because I want to celebrate them, their accomplishments, and also because I believe that listening to their stories can inspire you, their listeners to go out there and go for the stories, projects, and dreams that you want to pursue as well.

Just a quick note that in some of these episodes, you'll hear us refer to our podcast and platform as Genius Womxn. That used to be our name, but we changed to Travel Media Lab some time ago to better reflect the mission of our company. Happy International Women's month, and I hope you enjoy these episodes.

[EPISODE]

[00:03:23] YD: Welcome, Vanessa, to our podcast. I'm really excited to have you today on our show. It's going to be a very interesting conversation. So, I'm excited to have you on. For everyone who is joining us today, Vanessa is a professional photographer based in Ottawa, Canada. She is a photography instructor with Ottawa School of Art. She's a travel advisor, a founder of a travel company. She leads photo tours around the world with her company called Focus on Photography Tours, and we'll link to that as well. So, you can check out all the amazing tours that Vanessa leads around the world.

Vanessa took our Storytellers in Action class last fall. Since then, she has joined our membership, The Circle, and she's been just one of the most amazing, active and supportive members of our community. So, I'm really grateful and excited to have Vanessa on the show today. So welcome, Vanessa, very glad to have you.

[00:04:30] VD: Thank you. I'm happy to be here. I really enjoyed the course that I took and it had been years that I wanted to get published. I think that was sort of my next goal to check off my list and couldn't really figure out how and saw your course. At first, I think I joined the Facebook group and then now, I need something more. And then when I took the course I thought, I need that extra support to keep me motivated and join The Circle and I have no regrets.

[00:04:59] YD: That makes me so happy to hear that because as a creator, as someone who is building this community and building Genius Womxn. I tell you guys this all the time inside The Circle and inside our conversations that it’s just so important for me to hear that feedback and to hear that what we're doing, is helpful, is supporting to you. It's amazing to hear and to see then all the results that are happening on the back end of that, which we'll get into that as well. But no, that's awesome. I'm really excited that you were able to come on today.

So, before we get into all of that, I would like to know, so the creative career, it's still a very aspirational path, right? For many people, it can still seem quite out of reach, and so I'm curious, how did you get into photography? Or how did you know that you wanted to become a photographer? I mean, your resume is quite impressive. You're doing a lot of things. You're accredited with Professional Photographers of Canada. You're leading workshops. You’re leading group tours. How did you get into this path? And how did you know that you wanted to become a photographer?

[00:06:10] VD: It took a while the first thing I ever wanted to be was a trapeze artist in the circus.

[00:06:15] YD: How did I not know this about you? That’s amazing.

[00:06:19] VD: And then I think after I thought Indiana Jones, I wanted to be an archaeologist and go to Egypt, and I haven't been to Egypt yet. So, that's still on my list.

[00:06:26] YD: Okay. We have to go together, by the way.

[00:06:30] VD: I would love to. And then, I wanted to be a marine biologist. I love whales. One of my bucket list photography trips I want to do is to photograph them underwater. I've done whale watching tours and I've got a lot of photos of tails and mouth opening. But I have a few photographer friends who've done that and it just looks absolutely amazing.

But, I think, in high school, I took a communications class and we had to do a music video, and my teacher thought that ours was really good. It was a friend and I. We did our music video, and we entered it into a competition, and it won. So, that was sort of the first little hint like, “Oh, maybe, maybe I'm good at something creative.” And then I was president of our photography club. So, I learned how to use a dark room back in the day. My dad was really into photography. So, it's something that I was around. But in terms of a career, I never thought of it. But after this Communications course, I decided to apply to film school. I thought I wanted to tell stories, and I wanted to do cinematography. I loved the camera work. I love taking pictures and telling stories visually.

So, I went to one of the top film schools in Canada, but even there, I loved the students, and we had a great time making stuff. But my cinematography teacher was an old white man who, basically, when we went to visit the big equipment rental place was like, “This is why women aren't cinematographers, because it's heavy equipment and all this.” It felt like a lot of people were discouraging. “Oh, it's a tough industry. You'll never make it.”

By fourth year, I just felt I need something safe. So, I found a job in Ottawa and did that for a year. The job I had was coordinating these internship programs. So connecting people that wanted to work in the arts. Someone who wanted to work for a ballet company, they got an internship and they got to tour with the ballet company around the world. I thought, “Wow, that sounds really exciting.” I ended up finding an internship for myself, and I went to South Africa for six months, and that was great. But I had to come home to reality. My parents were like, “Find yourself a real job.” And I did.

I feel like it had these stops and starts. “Oh, maybe this is this is what will take me to the next level, and then these setbacks or doubts are just not finding the way.” I mean, I went to university in the late nineties, and there was no YouTube. You couldn't film from your phone. I think cell phones were just getting popular. But there, there wasn't the access to the tools that we have now to create.

So, it took a friend of mine who asked me to shoot her wedding, to be her wedding photographer, to make me think, “Okay, well, this is a different kind of career where I'm telling a story, and people will pay for that.” Everyone gets married. So, it's a way to maybe make an income doing something creative. That pushed me to get in touch with my own wedding photographer, and I followed her. I shadowed her as a second photographer for several weddings, a Hindu wedding, a Jewish wedding, a small little cocktail, intimate gathering.

I saw all sorts of different, and it was just so magical to – it's a happy day. Everyone looks good. And the trend has shifted from just these posed wedding portraits to like documentary style. So, I really love that about it, and I did that for a while. But I think, when I gave my notice at my nine-to-five job, I think within two weeks, I found out I was pregnant.

Just as I was launching my business, my mind was also very much focused on this new life that I was creating. It was a really exciting time. But I probably didn't put as much effort into the business as maybe someone who didn't have that other distraction. When my son was born, that was when I started photographing newborns and babies, and another really special time in people's lives. So, I joined the Professional Photographers of Canada and grew my skills through entering images in their competition and getting accredited, and learning. Realizing there was a community that it felt less competitive. It felt like here are some other people that, their colleagues, they have the same kind of issues and troubles and all that.

I went for about five years trying really hard to grow this business, but also having a young child at home. And then, when January went, it's usually our slow time. I got an email that looked like it could be spam. But I thought this looks interesting. Someone was looking for a photographer to lead a photography tour. I thought, “Well, I don't know if this is real or not.” But it just sounded so exciting that I said, “I'm a photographer. I've never been to India, but I've lived here and I've done this, and I've been there.” They got back to me, and I thought, “Wow, this is amazing. This is what I need. I was in a rut.” Little did I realize I had to do a lot of work to make that happen. 

I shifted gears because now I'd been marketing to young couples that were either getting married or having babies. Now, I needed to look for people who actually wanted to travel, which was an older demographic, typically. Their kids are grown. So, that's when I started teaching workshops. I just feel like my career path has kind of ebbed and flowed. But it's followed a direction that makes sense to me, and also my own life. I shot weddings at a time I just gotten married. I got it. I was into that whole industry. My life moved further away, and you know, I love to do families and babies. But then, as my son grew up, it just that interest waned a little bit, and the business side was tough.

What I loved about starting to teach these workshops is it brought back the passion for the craft of photography, to see those sparks, and I said, “This is why I like photography.” Trying to compete with those weekend warriors that shoot weddings for so cheap, and then trying to justify my pricing, and this and that. It was like really wearing down on me.

So, that's how I got started, the long version. But one of the things I had gone to school for to film school was, I wanted to travel and shoot documentaries. National Geographic was a favorite magazine of mine. I learned so much from the stories that they shared. So, I feel like it was kind of a way. Okay, well, if I can travel and do photo tours, I'm not working for them, but I'm still traveling and taking pictures. So then, now, I've been traveling and taking pictures for several years, and I decided like, okay, I really want to start publishing my photos. But I didn't know where and how. Then I thought, “Well, maybe if I start writing, and I have stories to share that that would be a good path to get out there and to get my images.”

I feel like I'm coming a little bit full circle to what I wanted to do when I was younger. And who knows, maybe I'll make documentaries in the future. But for now, I've been really enjoying the course, and the group, and the support, and feeling – even the rejections I get, I'm sharing. “Oh, look at this.” This was a nice rejection because they still want to work with me, just not on that particular story. That's been good. And seeing other people succeed and think, “Okay, well, if we all kind of started around the same time, my turn should come soon.” It finally did. So, I think I started pitching in early January, and I finally got my first yes. I think it was last week. I got two in the same week. So, pretty exciting. And then, I got another one this week. So, I feel pretty much on cloud nine right now.

[00:14:04] YD: Amazing. Amazing. Yes, we've been all rooting for Vanessa for the past couple of weeks. Because yeah, in our membership, every time some exciting news happens, or even like she said, when there's a rejection, we're sharing all of that stuff. There is power in that, right? And power and feeling like you're not alone, and celebrating each other and seeing each other as wins. But yeah, for Vanessa, for you, you've been just on a roll for the past couple of weeks, which is really amazing to see. I always feel like a proud mom.

I tell you guys this all the time. I'm just so excited for you guys. But I think this is actually a perfect segue into what I wanted to ask you next, which is so you touched a little bit on the aspirations that you had of why you wanted to now start publishing some of your stories. It's sort of brought you back to that time when you wanted to do documentary work and storytelling work.

I want to know a little bit more about the fears that you had, perhaps, if you did, right? Tell us that, maybe you didn't. But what I often see and with conversations when I'm talking to people is that a lot of times, what's stopping us is that we think either it's too late for me. I've already lost my shot, let's say. I'm not good enough. I don't have anything special to say. There's just so many things, and so many fears that come to mind when we start thinking about, “Well, could I potentially pursue this career? Could I be a storyteller? Could I work with National Geographic?” 

I'm curious to hear what some of your fears perhaps were, when you started considering this again, at this time, just before you decided to take the class?

[00:15:47] VD: I decided to take it during the pandemic when the whole travel industry is shut down. But I think because of that, too, I did have to try to think, okay, what can I do in the meantime? I'm not booking trips for people. I'm not taking trips myself. But I've been places, and I love to even research and find out about – the world excites me in so many different ways. So, I just thought this would be a good way to keep my mind busy during a great pause that we're all going through. I know that everyone has different challenges, and I have friends with multiple young children and trying to work full-time. So, not everyone can go out and pursue a new creative path.

But for me, I thought writing about what I know and having have all these photos taken. So, if I can kind of tie that in like it was a perfect time to do it. But in terms of fears, yeah, there's that fear that, okay, I know I can take a good picture. But can I write a good story? Is it worth trying to do both? Or should I just stick to photography? I had to go back to when I was in high school, and I did have an English teacher who said, “You should go into journalism. You write really well.” So, I had to tap into those compliments that I have received in the past, even though I didn't really pursue writing. I don't journal on a regular basis.

But I've had to self-promote for the last 14 years. I write blogs and other things. There was some writing happening, just not purposefully to get published. The other thing I had sort of dabbled in how do I grow my following. If I have more followers, that's how I'll get published because people will want to hire me as an influencer. But I'm an introvert. This popularity contest, I'm also in my 40s. I just felt, sometimes it feels so high school to try to game the system and find – I'd rather people follow me because they like what I have to say, or they enjoy seeing my images and the stories I have to tell. So, I want it to be authentic, and I know, there's all these formulas of how you should curate and this and that.

It was refreshing. I think one of the first things that attracted me to the Facebook page, and of course, and every time you say that you don't need to be popular in order to be successful. And editors don't necessarily look at all the followers you have. So, if you have a good idea, that's what's the most important thing. So, that gave me a lot of confidence to think, okay, yeah, I think that was another fear. I'm not popular enough. I don't have enough followers. So, definitely fear. 

The too old part, I'm getting okay with that. I feel like I keep reinventing myself.

[00:18:32] YD: Me too. Me too. I know. I'm on that journey, too.

[00:18:36] VD: Also, I'm really grateful I had the time to be a really dedicated mom. Being self-employed allowed me to be flexible and there for my son. And then, now that he's 13, he's trying to be a little more independent. So, I feel like I need to do things for myself. I don’t just identify as a mother and wife and I want to do things that really feed my soul. And in travel does that, and when I can't travel and writing about it, well, it’s the second-best thing, I think.

[00:19:07] YD: Yes, for sure. I love that you brought this up. I want to just reiterate that point again, because I get this question all the time. Do I need to have a big Instagram following in order to publish stories in all these magazines? And the answer to that is no. The editors, when they decide whether or not to work with you on a particular story, they don't look at your Instagram as a deciding factor. That's never a deciding factor. It might be something that they will ask you, perhaps when the story is already published, and they send you a link to the published story. They might say, “Hey, it would be great if you would promote it on your channels as well.” But it's never a determining factor when you're pitching them.

I know this is absolutely refreshing to hear for a lot of folks because we can talk about the difference between content creation career and influencing career, and the journalist career and how they differ. Because in the journalist career, your social media status, let's say, doesn't define whether or not you're going to get that work. What defines that if whether or not you have a good idea that fits with that publication, right? Which is something that we talk a lot about in the class and in the membership.

Tell me, what were some of the hesitation, though? Because I know there's a lot of people who are potentially interested in joining the class and joining the membership. Maybe it's starting to get more involved in this community and in this path, but they have hesitations. I'm curious to hear what were some of your hesitations.

[00:20:36] VD: Oh, for sure. Coming from the photography world, I definitely have become a bit jaded by some of the courses that people offer. I think, am I really going to learn something? Or it’s just how they're trying to make money. So, no offense, Yulia.

[00:20:53] YD: None taken. None taken.

[00:20:55] VD: But I didn't know you very well. So, I thought, okay, is my money going to help me or help you? I was looking at that, and because it's a time where I'm not earning as much. I really am cautious as to where I'm putting my money. But there was enough that I could tell that, I think I need this, I think I need this extra help to just figure out – it's not rocket science. Yes, you can figure it out on your own. But if you want to get there a little faster, without as many headaches, it was exactly what I needed, and I learned things that the formulas and how what editors look for, and the best way to present yourself, and the confidence building. I think the course gives you that.

So, it was nerve-wracking, sending the first pitch, and I was very bold. I sent it to Nat Geo Kids. And I did get a response. It was a maybe, and I still – that one still kind of up in the air.

[00:21:55] YD: Can we just pause and let that sink in, please? That Vanessa sent her first-ever pitch, she was bold to send it to National Geographic Kids, and she got a response. And the response was a, maybe, which is just incredible. Can we just celebrate that and pause on that? That's just amazing. How did that make you feel to hear back from them on the very first pitch?

[00:22:18] VD: I didn't hear back right away, and you encouraged us to follow up. So, it was during a follow-up that she responded. One of the editors said, “Oh, we love it, but I have to bring it to a meeting.” So, there, it got lost in the meeting somewhere. But at the same time, it made me realize that was a good idea. It got that far. Maybe it wasn't right for the publication at this time. But who knows? Maybe she'll file it away and get in touch with me later.

It was definitely a really big confidence boost. By then, I pitched several times, and it was sort of a month after my first pitch when I finally heard back. That gave me some momentum to keep pitching. I've had some weeks where I didn't pitch at all, because I just didn't feel it and started to feel down and think, “Okay, is this really worth it?” But I think being part of the circle, and I did jump on board with that because I knew myself. I knew that if I don't have that support, and the cheerleaders that can keep me going. And also, watching other people's success is a good motivator. Some of the people have taken the course earlier than I did, so they were a little further along. So, they were getting published.

I’m like, “Okay, this works.” I just need to persevere and you prepared us for the rejection and just having to continue on. If you want it badly enough, like anything, you figure out a way. When I was asked to go on this trip to India, I had to find people on my trip, and I wanted it so badly that I started teaching courses and having to speak in front of people and doing all these things because I wanted it that badly. So, I think anything you want badly, you'll fight for. And I've had some of my pitches that have been completely silenced. I'd never heard anything back. And then two of my pitches, the two that I got last week and this week, I sent something on Monday and heard two days later. So, it's really kind of hit or miss. But it goes to show that just keep trying.

[00:24:16] YD: You have to keep going no matter what, because eventually, and I say this all the time. If you keep reaching out, and you keep taking action and keep putting your ideas in front of people, eventually, you will get results. I have zero doubt in that. It's amazing, because now I look at all of you guys who are with us in the Genius Womxn community. I guess what I'm trying to say is that before, that knowledge was based on my own experience, right? I was like. I know this works because I've gone through it. But then when I'm teaching it and sharing it with you, now I'm like, this is incredible because now other people are going through the same stuff, and like you said, it works, but you just have to keep going and you have to keep pushing and keep reaching out. Eventually, somebody will say yes to your idea.

I think the trick, if you want to call it that, is to learn how to not to give up and to keep going. Because you just never know how and when an idea resonates with someone in the most incredible way, which is, something that just happened to you, too, with your latest pitch, which we'll get into in a second here.

But I want to just take a step back a bit and just talk about so you mentioned a couple of things that we had in the class, which were, I'm showing you some formulas for how a successful pitch will work and preparing you for rejections and sharing with you some confidence boosting techniques, I'm sharing with you how the industry works. One of the biggest elements of why I think this class works is that we prepare you to actually send a pitch out during the class because that's the whole idea, right? The class is called Storytellers in Action because we want to take action. We want to actually do something. For you, that whole National Geographic Kids response, which is amazing.

But I'm curious to hear, like, what did you find to be the most helpful and the most impactful part of the class?

[00:26:14] VD: I think the how to pitch because I think I hesitated, and I remember actually when I first started my photo tours, I had reached out to a photography magazine to advertise and, and I sort of was trying to hint at, “Well, maybe if there's a way to write stories.” I look back, and they had responded, say, “Oh, we're always looking for a story”, and then I never did anything with that. I didn't know how, which, to me. Seems silly. But maybe I just wasn't ready, then. And now, I'm really ready.

Yes, it isn't rocket science. But at the same time, there were very clear steps, and it just sort of opened up the world to me of travel writing, and writing in general, freelance writing, and kind of understand the industry. I think I just skirted alongside and I know people who wrote for magazines, but I never dared to ask them because I don't know. There's that again. “Well, who are you? You're a photographer. What are you doing trying to write?” So, again, that fear of not being good enough or not taken seriously, that people think that's not the right thing for you because you do other things.

I do wear different hats, and people they ask, “What do you do?” It's like, “Oh, what don't I do?” I always felt like a jack of all trades, master of none. But then I heard, I think it was somebody talking about these being a multi-passionate entrepreneur. I can't just do one thing. And even in photography, “Oh, you'll make more money if you really niche your business. Either just do weddings, or just do newborns.” But I would get bored if I just did the same thing the whole time. I like to set a little bit of adventure and change. That's why travel photography really appeals to me and writing about it.

[00:27:58] YD: I can relate to that a lot, because I'm also a multi-hat-wearing person, right? I think what you were referring to is the episode we did with Lindsey Gary, who is a dancer, an activist, a professor scholar, and she talks in her episode a lot about really not letting other people dictate there's only this one path or this one niche that you can take. There is validity in your experiences and in the way you want to show up in the world. If that way calls for you working on several different projects at a time, then that's your way, and it's absolutely valid. So, that absolutely speaks to me as well.

Listen, now I want to talk a little bit about some of the amazing pitch responses that you've been getting lately. Let’s get excited about that. How about that? I know. We are very excited about that in our Circle community. We've been talking about Vanessa’s wins for the past several weeks, which is awesome. But now, I want everyone else to know as well. You mentioned you reached out to several publications recently, and I think at the moment, you're working on three different stories. How incredible is that?

[00:29:11] VD: It's been wonderful. So, my first yes was to write a story on how to photograph from a kayak. It's an adventure, a women's adventure magazine, and I've been cooped up for a year, so I'm not a mountaineer, and I also had a serious accident several years ago, so I'm not doing crazy sports and things. But I thought they do an issue on specific, they have a theme. So, one theme was kayaking. One was mountaineering. So, I thought, “Well, kayaking. I was photographing from a kayak this summer. Maybe that's an interesting angle.” Because you can get closer. I got really close to some loons, a loon family, and that was another sort of bucket list photo I wanted was to get some really cool loon shots, especially with a little family. But I thought that would be a good angle, and they said yes. So, that was my first yes, and I was so excited.

Then, the second one was actually one of the ones I think I thought of during the course. So, when I went to Morocco, our guide is Amazigh, and I've never heard that word. And he explained that most people call us Berber, but we don't like that name. It comes from the word barbarian. That was completely new to me, and I don't think anyone else in the group knew that.

It kind of opened my eyes to that culture and the indigenous people in Morocco and across Northern Africa. So, I wanted to kind of share that, so that other people who are a little more sensitive to the Amazigh in Morocco, and that one got accepted. So, I've reached out to my guide, and he was happy to answer questions. And then, I reached out to an organization for Amazigh people, and they put me in touch with someone who works at the UN. I just feel like there's little journalists, even though I never went to journalism school.

[00:30:59] YD: Hey, let’s not downplay our wins and our results, right? This is amazing. You are a journalist, you are telling a story, you are interviewing people, you're just doing absolutely great work. So, let's not downplay that, okay?

[00:31:15] VD: But it does feed into that first dream that I had to tell those stories, travel the world and tell stories about the people in places and all the interesting things out there. That was really exciting. And then the last when, I think, I sent it on Monday, and I looked at when the person that editor had tweeted out that there's a call for pitches. Oh, that was two weeks ago. Maybe I'm too late. Something about how to how –

[00:31:45] YD: How nature saves us.

[00:31:48] VD: Well, everyone's going to say that they spend time in nature, and it's healing. And it's very typical, I guess, or comments, I thought. What kind of angle can I spin here? I just took a Master Naturalist course this winter, again, as a way to keep my brain occupied, but also to learn more about the natural world that I love to photograph and just have a deeper understanding for it. I thought, well, maybe that's a good angle. I don't think that's the angle they're going to take. They ended up looking at my photography and want me to do a photo essay.

I'm chatting with the editor, but I was blown away when they got back to me because I really had kind of – that one was just like, “Okay, well, let's just try anyway.” I really wasn't expecting to hear back. Again, it just goes to show like, don't give up or even if you think it might be too late, try anyways. It doesn't hurt to send an email.

[00:32:40] YD: Exactly. I just really love how you took that action, and like you said that you are not even expecting anything, which means that you're sort of breaking away from that fear of rejections because that's one of the things that stops us a lot of times, because we're like, we're expecting a rejection, we're expecting it not to go well. So, we might not even try. But in this case, you just send it out there, release the expectations and look, an amazing opportunity and amazing response came back to you.

How did your experience taking the course and being in the membership now? How did that change the way you approach? And we sort of touched on it just now. But how did that change the way you approach publications now? And the way you see yourself in this career now? And most importantly, how are those fears looking now, the ones that you shared with us earlier? 

[00:33:35] VD: I think when I got the first yes, it made me feel a lot more confident to call myself a writer. Because in the course, you learn how to introduce yourself. You say, “Hi, I'm Vanessa Dewson, and I'm a photographer and travel writer.” Every time I wrote, I was like, “Uh, that's not yet who I am. It's what I want to be.” But I did feel like a bit of a fraud writing that.

[00:33:58] YD: Can I just say something really quickly on that point? Because there is a reason why I'm teaching that in the class. You have to call yourself that before you are it in order for you to start acting. It's almost like that catch-22. If you don't believe that you're it, you're not going to take a chance on yourself and put that stuff, put the ideas out there. It's not that I want everyone to start frauding people and saying you’re something that you're not, right? It's more about that you have to believe it yourself first and naming yourself that it's part of that. And then, when you believe it, you start taking action, you start reaching out to people, and then eventually, it becomes reality.

[00:34:38] VD: Well, even like photography, everyone started somewhere before they were a photographer. That part was a little easier. In the last three yeses I got word before I had anything published. I did publish a small – one of my photographs was chosen for the cover of our Professional Photography Association's magazine. So, that was kind of my, “Oh, I've been published here.” But I know that that was a struggle for other people in The Circle, saying, “Well, I haven't been published yet. So, what do I put? What do I say? Where do people go see my work if I don't have work to show?” There's proof that I got three yeses without having a huge body of work behind me.

[00:35:24] YD: Exactly. So, sounds like confidence was a big one in terms of how did the experience of engaging with the course and with The Circle how it impacted you. Sounds like confidence was a big part of it.

[00:35:38] VD: Yeah, for sure. That's where having other people in the group because we could post pitch reviews in The Circle, so people could give some feedback. Even to which publication, if you have a great idea but you don't know where to put it, then pooling everyone's knowledge of what's out there is really helpful. These three places are not – they were not on my radar that accepted my pitches. So, I don't know how long it would have taken for me to get to this point without The Circle.

[00:36:11] YD: Yes, I know. For sure. That's the thing, right? Eventually, I always say this, too, all the time. Eventually, you will figure this out. What I'm teaching in the course, what I'm supporting you guys within the membership, eventually you'll be able – of course, it's not rocket science like we said. But the difference is that here's already some knowledge that exists, and you can tap into that knowledge, and you can save yourself a lot of that sort of trial and error, and that ends that I went through when I was starting in the industry. That's really the whole point.

Something else that you said. I think there is this thing in this industry, and I've seen it in other industries, too, that it’s like, I need to figure out how to do this on my own. If I don't figure this out on my own, then do I even deserve to be on this path? There's sort of this mentality that you have to make it on your own somehow. I really want to start dismantling that myth because this is a hard industry to be in on your own and to be without any support. I've also talked about this before, but this was one of the reasons why Genius Womxn idea came to me, because for most of my path, I was really just on my own, and I had no one to turn to. It's difficult. It's discouraging, and you have no one to ask questions to. It's much easier to give up that way. 

So, I think, just what you mentioned there about being in community with other women who are trying to do the same thing, that's powerful. There is definitely power in that, and I'm sure that you probably feel the same way as well.

[00:37:53] VD: I also think it gets rid of any jealousy because it's easy when you don't know someone else's path. And you see them get the success that you wish you had to be envious. But then, when you get to know people, and you see they have the exact same struggles, then when they get a win, you're excited for them. It motivates you to, “Okay, well, I was feeling kind of low this week and didn't know if I should send anything out.” Laura got this great article published. So, that's motivation. I'm going to get back out there. I got to start pitching again.

So yes, I think that has been really good and I've seen it in everyone in the group. There's ups and downs every week. So, we kind of help each other out and we do celebrate each other's wins, and that's really powerful. Because otherwise, it's pretty lonely. I was so excited last night, I think, right away. It was like on the WhatsApp.

[00:38:45] YD: Yeah, I know. You shared it with us right away. That was so awesome to see.

[00:38:49] VD: I know that people in the group will understand the feeling of getting an accepted pitch, whereas, like, even my husband. I mean, he was excited, but he doesn't know the inner struggles and everything else that I've gone through to get that, whereas I think the women in The Circle do. So, it's pretty powerful.

[00:39:10] YD: Amazing. That's exactly it. I think for me, that's the power of it, right? When you're with people who have those same struggles every week, that's when it becomes really powerful. And by the way, we sort of mentioned The Circle several times. So, I just want to mention for people listening that the course is the foundation of the knowledge in this industry, and there is community aspect in the course. The people that take the course together sort of stay together throughout the course. And then, as the course wraps out, then we have the membership, The Circle, which is sort of that ongoing component if you want.

Not everybody will want that, too. Some people, they know this about themselves that perhaps they don't need that a bit of extra motivation and extra support. But some people do. So, if you do, then that is available to you as well. This is awesome. I love talking to you. I love sharing your story because I think it's really powerful to know that what we want is really within our reach. It just needs some action from us. We do need to take action. We do need to write those pitches. We do need to send them out. We do need to follow up, and we need to keep pitching. And if we're persistent and consistent, and if we have support, then things are going to start happening for us, which is what we're observing right now with you, Vanessa. It's really beautiful to see. It's really, really amazing to see.

I'd love to sort of wrap up our chat today with wondering what would you say to someone who is interested in getting their stories published and perhaps starting to take steps toward their creative aspirations, but is not sure what steps to take next, has some fears, like the fears that we've discussed. Not sure if this is for them, if it's too late if it's whatever. However, many of those reasons. What would you tell them?

[00:41:04] VD: I would say, definitely take the course as the first step. The value you get for taking it, and it could take you a long way. So, just with that course alone, you're off to a great start, and you still have your Facebook group. There are ways to stay connected. But the course will really give you that foundation, even looking at where you want to see yourself. There's some internal work you do as well, as the nitty-gritty of how to actually approach a publication and tips on how to find ideas when you're stuck and all sorts of things. So, definitely worth it. I remember when I was thinking the whole financial side of things, it's like, “Well, you get a few publications that say yes, and you've paid it off.” If you can do that much faster than if you're trying to figure it out on your own, then even better. So, you're already on your way.

[00:41:59] YD: Yeah, for sure. It absolutely pays for itself, right? In some cases, even half an article will pay for the course, depending on the publication. So, I absolutely agree with that. Amazing. So, we'll have some more information about the course. If you're interested, you can check it out. Whether or not you take the course, whether or not you join us in the membership, or whether or not you engage with the Genius Womxn community in any way, what I would want to say is that just take action on something that you want. This is the most important thing. If there's one thing you can take out of today's conversation is that, please take action. Because a lot of times, we stop ourselves just short of doing the thing that's going to get us results. We stopped ourselves short for the reasons that a lot of signs are in our head and only in our head. And that always just breaks my heart because a lot of the things that we want are absolutely within our reach if only we took actions, and took some steps toward it.

There's nothing else that you’d take out from today. I hope this is it and go out there and do the thing that you want to do, and you will start seeing amazing results, just like what we're seeing now with Vanessa. So, thank you so much, Vanessa. Thanks for coming today. It was a great, great time talking to you, as always, and I will see you soon in The Circle.

[00:43:21] VD: Thank you, Yulia. This has been wonderful, and wonderful to get to know you throughout the course, and it's been nothing but great.

[OUTRO]

[00:43:29] YD: Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed this conversation we're bringing back to celebrate the multi-talented women who have come to our show over the years. If so, I want to ask you to please now, take a minute to support our show. You can do that by leaving us a rating or a review on an Apple podcast app or any other app that you're listening to this podcast on, or by sharing this episode with your friends, your loved ones, maybe posting about it on social media. It really, really helps us get discovered by more listeners that would find our show helpful, and it means so much to me.

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