S8 E88: Living Beyond Expectations with Storyteller Lola Akinmade Åkerström

Get the show’s transcript

“LAA: When I took a photo of a stranger, letting the stranger tell me without words, I'll be one to be showing to the world, because the minute I ask someone, can I take a photo? It no longer becomes about me, the photographer, what I want, or what they are willing to give me of themselves and of their time. For me, a lot of these came from a real background, especially when I moved to the US and I was isolated a lot because people tend to isolate and exclude what they don't understand. People didn't understand me a lot, so a lot of that I bring now into my work. How can I create understanding? How can I create this connection so that people are not excluded, they are not isolated? They are seen for who they are.” 

[INTRODUCTION]

[0:00:44] YD: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Travel Media Lab Podcast. I'm your host, Yulia Denisyuk, an award-winning travel photographer, writer, storyteller, community builder, podcaster, and entrepreneur, working with publications like National Geographic Traveler, The New York Times, and more. Traveling to interesting places around the world and producing stories that I'm excited about. Travel Media Lab is my platform for helping you break into the travel media space, where we share insights, tips, advice, and stories from people working in the industry. 

Happy International Women's Month! Our mission inside this podcast has always been about uplifting women and inspiring more women to go after their own storytelling dreams. In the two years that we've been podcasting, which is hard to believe that it's been two years already, we've had so many incredible women in travel come and share not only their wisdom, but also their fears, wins, struggles, hopes, and dreams with us. This March, in honor of International Women's Month, I wanted to bring back these conversations, some of the most poignant, heartfelt, and inspiring conversations we've ever had in our show. 

In the next few episodes, you're going to hear from travel photographer and writer, and dear friend, Karthika Gupta, who works with publications like Conde Nast Traveler, Thrillist, and more. Our former student and circle member, Vanessa Dewson, who's also been published in multiple publications, most recently in TripSavvy. Nikki Vargas, an amazing writer, and editor at Fodor’s Travel, who has a book coming out called, Call You When I Land. Lola Akinmade is a multi-talented powerhouse of a female creator who is just so, so inspiring to me and whose projects continue pushing the boundaries of the travel media space. Last, but very much not so least, Sara Han, an accomplished travel writer and editor, and a thoughtful traveler, who's currently working with Robb Report. 

Take a minute to listen to all of these episodes and also connect with these amazing women on Instagram. We will have links in the show notes to all of their accounts so you can go and check out their work. I handpicked every one of these conversations because they impacted me personally when I interviewed these incredible women because I want to celebrate them, and their accomplishments. Also because I believe that listening to their stories can inspire you, their listeners to go out there and go for the stories, projects, and dreams that you want to pursue as well. 

Just a quick note that in some of these episodes, you'll hear us refer to our podcast and platform as Genius Women. That used to be our name, but we changed it to Travel Media Lab some time ago to better reflect the mission of our company. Happy International Women's Month and I hope you enjoy these episodes. 

[INTERVIEW]

[0:03:45] YD: Welcome, Lola. I'm so thrilled to have you on the podcast today. Like I told you before we started recording, a lot of people see you as a huge inspiration. I'm so happy that we get to talk to you today. 

[0:03:59] LAA: Well, thank you so much. The honor is mine. I am so excited to be here. Thank you all. Thank you. 

[0:04:05] YD: If you could, before we start digging into your amazing career and all the projects that you've done and your journey, can you tell us a little bit about a favorite image of yours that you've ever taken, or a favorite story that you worked on that is one of your favorites? 

[0:04:24] LAA: Ooh. Well, I have so many memorable stories and photos, but the one that immediately jumps to mind is one where I went ski sledding in Northern Sweden. I captured a moment where one of the huskies turned back and looked at me. It was just this eye contact. The reason why that photo is special, you're going to see it, just that kind of human-to-animal connection, but that was the photo that also helped launch my relationship with National Geographic, right? Because that photo became a double-page spread. When you open it, you see that dog looking back at you. 

Then that photo spread was what the producer saw, that they reached out to me to be part of a National Geographic channel collaboration with South African tourism. Then that led to me getting signed by the then National Geographic Image Collection, and then the rest is a little bit of history, right? But that image is one that really, I always remember because it is what really opened up a lot in terms of not just taking the photo of an animal, but actually, how do you connect capturing that collection, right?

[0:05:36] YD: Yes. Oh, I love that. I love that. I love that story. I started asking this question on the podcast recently and more often than not, what I'm seeing, and what people are telling me back is often, images of actual wildlife and animals and special moments like that. I think even now I'm saying, and I have goosebumps, I don't know why. 

[0:05:58] LAA: Yeah. Well, I mean it’s interesting because I love environmental portraits of people. That's what I really specialize in, or meeting strangers around the world and capturing just lateral, raw images of them. For this one picture, about an animal, like an animal to be the one that jumps to mind, also shows how special and also what's for me as well, so yeah.

[0:06:21] YD: I love that you share the story of how that one image opened so many opportunities for you and a lot of times, it's like that in our journeys, isn't it? That one step we take, the one thing we do suddenly, actually I have a similar story with my Jordan adventure. I've been going to Jordan. I love the community there. I became a friend of the community and that trip to Jordan really launched my relationship with National Geographic as well. I can totally relate to that. We just never know. 

[0:06:53] LAA: Exactly. Absolutely. The one caveat I wanted to add was you were prepared, right? That when they came, it wasn't just like this one-shot overnight success, or anything. It was that you had put in the work over the years so that when the opportunity came, you were ready. I guess I’d like to add that caveat in there because people always think things happen overnight when they technically don’t. Because if you're putting in years of hard work, sleepless nights, hustling, and toiling, until then when you are ready and the opportunity came, then it became a perfect match.

[0:07:29] YD: Okay, Lola. We can just cut it right here because this is it right there, you know? No, I'm joking, of course. But this is what, at least the message that I try to put out into the world for people who want to be on this path is it takes time and it takes commitment and perseverance, and being ready at the right moment. It's going to come that moment for all of us in whatever shape or form. Absolutely, it's not that one day I decided to become a travel photographer, and the next day, National Geographic knocks on my door, right? 

[0:08:04] LAA: Yes, exactly, exactly.

[0:08:08] YD: Amazing. We're going to get into your journey and your path because it's absolutely inspiring. You've worked with some incredible brands like National Geographic, BBC, Lonely Planet, and The New York Times. You're a multi-award-winning journalist. You work with different brands like Intrepid Travel, Mercedes-Benz, and others. I read somewhere that with your work, you want the viewers to first and foremost, see the humanity in the people that you photograph and you represent. That's just such a clear vision of what you want your work to be. I'm curious, now that you're at this level and you have all these different projects that you're working on and different opportunities, how do you decide, “What is the next thing that I'm going to be working on”? Walk us through that process a little bit. 

[0:08:55] LAA: Absolutely. I mean, if you look at the work I do, I do a lot of things in different arenas. The common thread is cultural connection, right? It's connecting with people trying to facilitate understanding, trying to create some bridge between our similarities, so we can understand each other, see each other better and listen to each other. In my photography, that is just me when I take a photo of a stranger, letting the stranger tell me without words, I’ll be the one to be showing to the world. Because the minute I ask someone, can I take a photo? It no longer becomes about me, the photographer, what I want, or what they are willing to give me of themselves and of their time.

For me, a lot of these came from my own background, especially when I moved to the US and I was isolated a lot because people tend to isolate and exclude what they don't understand. People didn't understand me a lot. A lot of that, I bring now into my work. How can I create understanding? How can I create this connection, so that people are not excluded, they're not isolated. They're seen for who they are. Because that was what I wanted.  That's what I bring into my work. I bring it into the photography. Look into the person's eyes. The photo doesn't have to be the most amazingly staged photo, but what you want to see is that connection, that moment of intimacy. When I take the picture of the person, then you can see that we’re not looking at anything else, but each other. There's that moment.

You're the photographer, and you also notice, there's that moment when the person is looking at you and nothing else matters because you’re both looking at each other. That's what I want the viewers to see because they are fully seeing the person without judging them based on their environment. You're looking at them first.

Then in my travel writing, that's also what I bring. I write very transparently, so people tell me who they are through my work. People, the book projects I do. Again, it's about facilitating cultural understanding, so that we understand each other more and give each other space to just be and exist.

[0:11:04] YD: That's so beautiful. I'm resonating with it on so many different levels because I think for a lot of us who get into a particular travel storytelling space, I believe that's what drives a lot of us, that we all see beyond constructed notions of what separates us. We see our shared humanity of us, and we want to share that with the world. I don't know why I keep getting goosebumps today. It's you, Lola, I think. 

[0:11:35] LAA: [Inaudible 0:11:36]. We’re talking just real, organic, transparent truth. I mean, we're all human. We all want to be seen for who we are. We want to exist without explanation. That's why it's resonating because we just want to be. We want to give that to others who will travel walk. I don't know. I guess I'm too much of an idealist. 

[0:12:00] YD: Me too, but I'd rather be that than a skeptic, you know? 

[0:12:03] LAA: Yes. 

[0:12:04] YD: I love that you also mentioned all the different projects that you do, because there is this train of thought that says, oh, you have to do one thing and do it exceptionally well. I'm a multi-passionate person. I do lots of different projects, and they all revolve around the travel sphere. But one day I can be a writer, and the next day I'm an entrepreneur with my travel company like you are with Local Purse, which we're going to get into. Like, I just love that. This is a model for how to be in this space. You don't have to restrict yourself to one lane, right?

[0:12:36] LAA: Yes. Absolutely. I'm resonating with what you're saying. I think, I don't know if you found out there's a word called multipotentialite. 

[0:12:44] YD: Yes. 

[0:12:45] LAA: You need to Google it because I think that's what you are as well, right? 

[0:12:47] YD: Yes. 

[0:12:48] LAA: A multipotentialite is one that thrives on lots of different passions. They are pretty good at all of them. What happens is people tend to get frustrated at multipotentialites, because they want us to pick a lane. 

[0:13:03] YD: Yes. They don't know how to define us, right? Going back to that. Yeah. 

[0:13:07] LAA: Exactly. Society likes to put people in boxes and give them labels and say, you know what, you're a travel writer, well, but what if I'm also a travel photographer? Then I'm also this and I'm also that? Am I not allowed to do all that? Yes, that is how I thrive. I am a multipotentialite. I am glad I found that. I try not to put labels on myself, but this is a label I will gladly put on because I found the community and understood. This was why I felt excluded, or sidelined for many years because people felt like we couldn't define me, or couldn't put me in a box, or one lane.

[0:13:43] YD: Yeah. 

[0:13:45] LAA: Absolutely. Yeah.

[0:13:46] YD: Let's get into a little bit of your story. Some time ago, you made a bold move of leaving behind your programmer's job in Ohio. I think it was Ohio. And applying for a media team, and volunteering position for a race in Fiji. That was when you were like, “I'm just going to go for it. This is going to be my career from now on.” I'm wondering what was that thing that really helped you overcome that fear? Actually, maybe you didn't have that fear, but I know a lot of people listening have that fear of leaving something very traditional, very secure behind and saying, “You know what? I'm just going to go for this thing.” How did that happen for you? 

[0:14:34] LAA: I'll give you a little bit more context. I was still a programmer when I went to Fiji, and I was still a programmer when I came back. I just thought that –

[0:14:42] YD: Very important. Very crucial context. 

[0:14:44] LAA: Exactly. Exactly. I did not just swan dive out of all my possibilities into this, right? What I did was when I came back from Fiji, I started plotting how I wanted to transition. Fiji was in 2002. I'm dating myself now, but that experience was in 2002. A long time ago. I didn't leave my programming job fully, until 2009. That was several years later but already started on the side, building my travel writing portfolio. By the time I was able to leave, even though I took a nose dive in terms of income. I lost about 60% of my income, but it wasn’t zero. At least, I took a dive and started at 40 and then built my way back up and leaving more all that needs, right? 

I think I wrote about this is, yes, life is short. We have to do what we want to do now. If you have some responsibilities, that shouldn’t stop you from doing what you want to do, but they're also still your responsibility, so you have to find an adult way of trying to get out of there. At least, wrap and look, so you can do what you want to do fully, right? For me, that was where we were thinking is, I knew this was my part. I wasn't just going to go and quit right away. For some people, maybe that works for them. If they have no other responsibilities, they'll have no activities or are just free, absolutely. But for me, I had a condo I was paying for. I had my car. I had a life. Then I just had to create that transition period, as well as create my portfolio as a travel writer to start building that brand and that side of me. That's when I did leave, it wasn't just into oblivion.

[0:16:30] YD: Gosh, Lola. I think this is a very refreshing way to talk about quitting your job and pursuing your dream type thing, because a lot of people talk about it in a lot of different ways. But there's always like, I feel like, there are these two extremes. You either quit your job immediately and swan dive like you say, or you don't do it because you're scared, right? I love how you put it, do it the adult way. There is a third way. There are many different ways to arrive at where you want to be. This is just absolutely great. 

The thing you said about building your portfolio, right? This is so crucial. That goes back to what we just talked about, where Nat Geo knocks on your door. You have to build your portfolio and that takes time. What is that way for you? If you're listening right now and you have a job, that maybe takes all of your juices because that was the case for me. I had a corporate job that absolutely squeezed me so dry, that I had nothing to give to anything else outside of that. For me, the option was I need to quit this corporate job because I'm not able to co-build in that space. Maybe you have a job that gives you more space. Then in that space is when you create that portfolio and do it this more gradual way. I guess the point is that there are so many different ways to arrive at a place where you want. 

[0:17:53] LAA: Yes, of course. If you are actually at a corporation where you absolutely need that job, or you feel like the only other option is to quit it, then what you have to do is, first of all, look at all your skills, right? Am I a writer? Am I a photographer? What can I do? Can I maybe copy-edit for a while? Then leave that job that you want to leave, that you hate, but then take some of those skills and try and get something part-time, or what I call on-call clients. Most travel writers are not travel-writing full-time. They actually have a lot of on-call corporate clients. 

Half of their time is travel writing. The other half are for corporate clients, where they use their skills to make more money in those environments, whether it's copy editing, ghostwriting, or brand collaboration. That's where they make most of the money. The editorial is just the fancy bylines because most editors don't pay that much. It's a max of $1 to $2 a word. Most of them are much less than that. Most travel writers don't just do that. They actually have all kinds of side gigs that are related to their skills. If you're in that corporate job, it doesn't mean you can't leave. You can't still leave it, but you can. Then I call it not putting your eggs in one basket. I don't do that. I have one egg in a million different baskets. I'm going to put those skills in different places, so that keeps you afloat, while it comes out time to actually do what you wanted. 

[0:19:23] YD: Oh, Lola. Exactly, right? Exactly it. Because not a lot of people talk about this. That's the reality, right? That's how we are able to go on with this lifestyle, because yes, this industry doesn't pay investment banking salaries, unfortunately, right? For me, what I always say is, to find something that can sustain you as you continue on this path, as you continue pursuing those dream projects of yours. What can I be? I love that you made it really practical for our listeners, like other skills that you have, or skills that are related to this dream that you can work with corporate clients, with brands. There is so much demand for that on that side of the equation, right? That it's absolutely doable. 

[0:20:11] LAA: Absolutely. Most travel writers do, or even travel photographers, especially with last year, just the way travel came to a standstill, most of them do other things as well. It's still related to their skills, so it's not like really random. Otherwise, then you're not moving forward, right? What do you want to do is do things with your skill sets, things that you still enjoy, that will still keep moving you closer to your goals. Absolutely. 

[0:20:40] YD: Love it. Love it. 

[MESSAGE]

[0:20:42] YD: Hey friends, I'm interrupting myself here for a quick second to let you know that I've created a brand-new resource just for you. If you're enjoying listening to this podcast and want to start pitching your travel stories, go to geniuswomxn.com/pitch to get access to my private pop-up podcast of three short episodes that reveal the secrets of successful pitching. That's geniuswomxn.com/pitch. Okay, back to this episode.

[INTERVIEW CONTINUED]

[0:21:14] YD: Okay, let's talk about pitching, because pitching is something that always scares people a lot. This is something that I found people are not able to untangle their personal worth and the pitches that they put out. When those rejections come, or when that silence comes, it's like, this is a judgment on how horrible I am. I've dedicated the whole podcast to saying, “No, let's untangle those because that doesn't mean absolutely that you're not good enough.” What I want to talk to you about is specifically rejections, right? Because that is for every 10 pitches that you send out, maybe, I don't know, nine of them will come back with projections overall. That's the nature of the industry. How do we navigate that? 

[0:22:00] LAA: Exactly. I don't know if you know this, but for 10 years, I publicly published on my blog, all my assignment rates, my rejections, my [inaudible 0:22:13], and then pitches I had made before. I called them my pie charts. I'll send you a link to that, because I think you'll find that interesting. I started from 2008 to 2018. I stopped because, at that point, I just felt like I didn't need to anymore. But for 10 years, I publicly created a pie chart that showed a 30% acceptance rate at the end of the year, or 10% rejections, 30% interest rate, so that it was transparently showing what the industry was like, as well as showing how I was growing as a writer and using the feedback. Because a lot of writers do not know how to self-assess. They do not know how to edit or audit their work, and they take things too personally, right?

When I started my first few years, just the pie chart was mostly red. Just rejections, right? I was drawing all sorts of pictures out until I started looking at the responses I was getting back. When an editor writes back to you and says “Not interested,” that's a good thing. One, their email still works. Two, they’re still at the magazine. Three, it's an opening for you to then ask them. For example, if an editor says, “Sorry, we're not covering Jordan right now,” and they reject you, you just write back, “Thank you so much. What are the regions you're covering? I’m interested,” and they’ll tell you “Middle East.” Then two weeks later, you say, “Oh, here’s a story from Iran.” That is how you work. That is how you work as a writer to really align. 

Then most of the time, the editors give you ideas and clues into why they're rejecting the pitch. They may say, “Oh, sorry. We've already published something similar,” “Oh, sorry. We've already published something similar,” which means I, as a writer, I am late to pitching. When an event occurs, I'm pitching too late, because they've already grabbed that. There's so much you can do. Rejections are great, because they give you a lot to work with, and they can help you get better. Over the years, I pitched a lot less and got a lot more acceptance, obviously, because you have to grow with each year. Then I am grateful that at this point, I really don't send off a lot of pictures anymore. I've kind of built original expertise and film expertise, so that editors now that I've worked with are comfortable with me, or are interested to reach out to me to see if I’m interested in stories. 

What you want to do as a writer is looking at rejection as just a blessing in disguise. It doesn't matter how far up, or how far wherever you get in your career. Rejections still happen. I mean, I have a novel that's coming out in September that was rejected 70 times, seven-zero. 

[0:25:03] YD: I read that. I read that somewhere. Yes. 

[0:25:07] LAA: Rejection is part of it. So, if you take everything personally, you have to really step back and [inaudible 0:25:12] and then jump back into it.

[0:25:14] YD: I love it, Lola. It’s such great advice for our listeners because that's exactly it. What you said there, about when an editor sends you a note that says, “I'm not interested,” it's an opportunity to ask questions. What I always say is don't treat this as a one-time event when you pitch, and it's sort of make or break. It’s this opportunity to start a relationship, which is more important than the one pitch, which is exactly what you're talking about, too. 

[0:25:43] LAA: Exactly. That’s it. Get into more relationships. It takes time to cultivate and respect them. Also, being – For lack of a better word available as well. Editors tend to remember writers that helped them at the last minute when they were in a bind. Within reason, you have to do it within reason. But if you had the bandwidth to help at the last minute, they tend to remember things like that as well that, “You know what? I was in a bind, and this writer came and really helped and created epic work,” whatever. I mean, if you look at those 10 years, I have a lot of [inaudible 0:26:17]. I had the pie charts. I give advice on what to do and things like that. I'll share that with you.

[0:26:24] YD: That's brilliant. Thank you, Lola. The other thing that I just wanted to tease out from what you just said is what I share with people is to put yourself in the editors’ shoes and how can you make their job easier. Which is what you're just talking about, right? They're going to remember that exactly, because their job is not the easiest, too. They're very overwhelmed. They have a lot of demands on them. They have tons of pitches coming into their inbox. If you put yourself in their position, you will understand. I think you will get that empathy. Yeah, if you can make their job easier, if you can help them out in a crunch, they will come back to you, because they'll want to work with you.

[0:27:05] LAA: One thing I did want to add that’s one extra tip is I know there are a lot of software that people use to track if somebody has opened your email to read it. Don’t. Don’t use it. 

[0:27:15] YD: Oh, interesting. 

[0:27:16] LAA: I don't use it, because it –

[0:27:17] YD: I use it myself too, so I'm curious why. 

[0:27:19] LAA: Because it breeds unnecessary resentment. Because somebody – You see the other person has read your email, but you have no context. You just see that they've read it and then you feel like, “Why are they ignoring me, but they’ve read it?” You don't have the context of why they don’t respond, so it can breed unnecessary resentment. I used to use them, but then I stopped because people are basically, people have lives. You just don’t know.

What you don’t want is to feel like – Especially if you're waiting for a response and then you see that the person still looks at it every day, but he’s not responding, it can breed unnecessary resentment. That’s why I took it off. I no longer use that kind of tracking to see if somebody opened the email. It’s out there. It’s in the world. If they have time, they’ll respond to it and they’ll follow up. But I don't want my emotional mental state to be tied to waiting for somebody to respond to my email. 

[0:28:17] YD: Yes. That's brilliant. That's very important. I think what you're talking about here is a skill that I think is a great skill to have in life in general, which is about not making assumptions and not interpreting events, because we all interpret events, right? Not interpreting it in a way that, again, puts you down and says, “Well, this must mean they hate me.”

[0:28:42] LAA: Yeah, because that's the thing. That’s what’s going to happen if you're going to – Especially newer writers, they’re going think that. The rejections, they’ll take personally. Everything becomes a kind of high-tuned emotional bubble. To kind of prevent that, if you don't have to track. Because I know – I mean, people that use it are usually maybe people from marketing or sales, things like that. But waiting for editors to see if they read my email, I have to stop it, because I saw myself becoming a version of myself that I was like, “Why? I don't know the reason why they're not responding. Are they busy or – I don’t know.” I don't want it to breed unnecessary resentment. That gives you more clarity of mental space and emotional space to just keep moving on and doing things. 

[0:29:28] YD: I love that. I love that. There's a story that you share in your TED Talk, which we're going to link to as well. I encourage everyone who's listening to watch the TED Talk. It's really great. I mean, it's amazing. There is a story that you share that really strikes me, where you talk about the opportunity that you missed to go to the North Pole, that you were so close to getting, and you missed it by three votes. Then later on, you recognized – you learned that some of your friends didn't vote for you because they were like, “Why does she want to go to the North Pole?”

What I want to sort of talk about now is the fact that we are put into boxes by others, but also by ourselves in this industry. From that story, what I'm curious to learn is how did that progress for you, and how were you able to stop letting others put you in boxes? But also, how do you prevent yourself from putting yourself in that box? Because that's what sort of – I think a lot of times, that's what is stopping us from going after what we want because we are putting ourselves in that box that says, “Well, I can't do that,” right?

[0:30:46] LAA: Exactly. Well, for me, it was by asking “why not?” and that was the whole point of the TEDx Talk, asking the question “why not?” When I ask the question, this can be verbal, but I ask even through my actions, right? For the people that kept putting me in boxes, or have their preconceived notions, I ask them “why not?” If they say, “Well, why are you doing this?” Then, I ask, “Why not?” Then it forces them to explain why they think I shouldn't do it. Then if the reason is not good enough, I keep asking, “Well, why not?” Until I expose their own prejudice to them because most people don't think they are prejudiced until it’s exposed to them, because they have preconceived notions. Then “why not?” is also when you ask yourself, “Why am I not allowed in this space? Who says I'm not allowed into this space?” This is my space as well. I worked hard for it. 

Gratefully, I haven't – kind of over the years, I never really let people put me in boxes or define me. I think it’s been very frustrating for a lot of people in the travel industry as well, because they don't know how to define me, or they want to just put a label, oh, they expect me to do things that I don't do, or I do things that they don't expect me to do. Because they have preconceived notions of what I, as a Black African woman, am supposed to be doing, or what I'm supposed to be writing about, or what I'm supposed to be interested about, right?

In the TEDx Talk, I said, “Just live your own truth. Just show up fully as yourself and live beyond what people's expectations are of you because that's what actually makes you.” The irony is that it makes you more possible to ignore, because you're just doing your own thing on the side, outside of the expectations. Just asking why not, challenging in that way, both either verbally or even in clear actions, because doing what really makes your heart sing. People try to force and stuff you into a box, but they can’t. In the long run, they can’t. 

[0:32:53] YD: Lola, this is so interesting because what you just said, I literally wrote it out. When I was preparing for our chat, I wrote out this quote of yours, “When you start living your life beyond other people's expectations of you, you become impossible to ignore.” It’s so powerful. It's so powerful. 

[0:33:14] LAA: Yeah, because it's true. The point is not to be like, “Well, I want to be seen all the time.” But it's just that people can't ignore the fact that you have shown up fully in your life, and you're living your own life, on your own terms, and as authentically and as organically as possible. That will be outside of their expectations, and that will make them notice. They just will, naturally. If there was something that I expected to be doing something else isn't doing, I'm going to look. I’m going to be curious. I'm going to be wondering why. That was a point of that. 

[0:33:50] YD: That's awesome. I love that. I love that. Let’s talk a little bit about the fact that, especially when you start out in this industry, it can be such a lonely journey. Or at least that was my experience that I didn't know anybody in the industry. I had no idea what I was doing. I was just sort of poking in different directions. I found the experience itself to be very isolating. A lot of people feel threatened, because a lot of people operate from a scarcity mindset, that if you take that story, or if you take that assignment, it means less for me. I think that's part of the reason why I felt so lonely because maybe I was perceived as a threat to other people, or whatever. 

What I want to talk about, I've been on the journey myself of switching from that scarcity to the feeling of abundance that, because I'm so unique and you're so unique, and everybody is so unique and has a very special way to tell stories and to look at the world, we never compete because we are all telling our own stories. What I wanted to ask you was how was that experience for you? Because I think it's so important to find people and to find the community that can help you feel like you're not alone. 

[0:35:14] LAA: First of all, community is super, super important. You need fellow colleagues so that you can champion each other, uplift each other, and share the same kind of battles. It’s the same sea, different routes, right, as they say. But what I've also found is that, like you said, the scarcity mindset. It feels like a crabs in a barrel kind of situation, where people feel like there isn't enough to go around. For me, I come from the Yoruba tribe in Nigeria. We’re very community, open, giving, sharing mentality. I would call it a very abundance mindset. There is a quote in my language that says, “The sky is big enough for all birds to fly, without colliding.” I mean, that is the mindset we grew up with. In coming to a scarcity mindset, the community feels very unnatural for me, right? 

Then one thing I also wanted to say is that people worry a lot about relevance, and staying relevant, where they need to worry about evolution. Because what happens is, as a writer, as a photographer, and as a creative, you evolve with different stages of your life. You transition, where some things you are doing things or telling stories, you're not trying to be more relevant for the same audience you had 10 years ago or five years ago. Your audience evolves with you. You lose people. New people find you. But that's what I always try to tell colleagues is don't worry so much about staying relevant because then it's going to push you to do things that you cannot sustain because you're trying to stay relevant. But think about the natural evolution of your voice, your career, or your life. Then it will be easier for you to transition into and to bring the right people at the right time in that stage of your life. 

There are so many things I could talk about in community because community is great. But I also stay on the sidelines a lot because I am not a person – I do not like cliques. I do not do cliques. I'm not a cliquish person. I operate from an abundance mindset and I feel like there’s enough for everyone. There's enough to go around. I share a lot, a lot. That’s how I kind of how I operate personally. 

[0:37:33] YD: It’s all resonating with me, Lola. We need to meet. We need to meet. 

[0:37:38] LAA: Yes, we will. We will meet. 

[0:37:41] YD: That's beautiful. I couldn’t agree more, of course, with everything that you're saying. I think also the staying relevant part, to me, when you talked about staying relevant versus evolution, what it brought to mind was off the moments versus, long-term, finding your own voice that you stay true to, which is sort of a similar way to think about it. When you're trying to like, chase trends, you're chasing trends. You're not speaking from your voice, which is sort of similar I think to what you were talking about here. 

[0:38:15] LAA: Absolutely. I’m going to add two things. I’m going to say it real quick. With evolution, as you move, you become a better and better version of yourself. That’s what it is, right? When something moves from this stage to that stage, it's getting better, powerful, whatever. You're getting to a better state of yourself. But then I want to give you a metaphor about trends. I look at trends like a raging sea, right? Raging sea. If you follow every trend, you're a swimmer that's jumping into the waves, trying to swim. The sea can drown you because it's raging. It can drown you. Well, it's easier so on that when aware of the trends, you’re monitoring the trends, you’re like a surfer on the surfboard. You're not swimming directly in the trends, but you are kind of navigating the trends, adjusting yourself to see. You still have your style as a surfer, and that’s your voice. But you are using the technique, the platforms, and the new trends to see how you can keep moving your voice, without swimming and letting the trend consume you.

That’s what I always say. Try to be like a surfer on the waves with trends, instead of just being a swimmer right in the middle of the trend, trying to out-trend the trend. It’s not going to happen. That’s how I feel. I'm not a big trend person. I keep abreast of all the trends. I use what needs to be used to shuffle the voice, but I do not let trends consume me. 

[0:39:43] YD: Beautifully said. Yeah, very well said. I love that. We don't have a lot of time left, although I feel like I want to keep talking to you. Maybe two or three-hour podcasts will become a trend in the future. But right now, they're not.

Before we wrap up, I wanted to ask you. A lot of people will listen to this interview and will read your bio, and will look into you. A lot of them already know you, and they will see all these incredible successes that you've had and all the publications that you've been published at, the brands, and the amazing books that you've done. I'm going to ask you about In Every Mirror She's Black, because that's just an incredible project, too. But they're going to see this picture of you, the snapshots of all of the incredible accomplishments that you had.

What I want to sort of talk about now is there are a lot of setbacks. There are a lot of challenges. There are a lot of things that are not a part of our public picture of ourselves. But what I want to sort of talk about is what was, for you, one of the more difficult parts of this journey?

[0:41:02] LAA: Well, I'll tell you what my biggest regret was. When I first moved to Sweden, Sweden gives parents a year and a half or so of maternity, parental leave. When I had my first child, I took one month off and I gave all my time to my husband because I felt like I needed to work. I couldn't sit home for a year not doing anything. That remains my biggest regret because I couldn’t have just settled for a year and done nothing. I was feeling the pressure of, “Okay, fine. Take six months, nine months maternity leave, more than that,” which is a luxury in itself, right? If I took all the time off, will my work still matter? Will I still be able to keep this client today? That was how I was thinking back then.

That remains my biggest regret is that I did not take enough time. I was dragging my daughter around to conferences, which is fine, and that’s okay. I'm a traveling parent. But I felt like, I could have taken that time, at least six, or nine months living in the West. For me, that was my biggest regret. For people that want to choose a certain lifestyle, you have to create the support system to support that lifestyle. Because once you make the choice, then the choice is yours. Then you have to put the systems in place to support it. 

[0:42:22] YD: And you have to live it. 

[0:42:23] LAA: And you have to live it. That I will say is my biggest. I mean, now, I mean, I have two kids, so I've learned a lot. Things are different now, but I think back then, which was nine years ago, that was what I did. Because remember nine years ago was about when I just left my job as a programmer and then just started working full-time as a travel writer for reference. I felt like, if I had the baby now and took a year and a half off, it was all in vain, which comes back to social media is that we see what we see.

People just share the highlights of their careers, and that's fine. But you need to also know that because people are also very private. I don't share my kids, or my husband publicly because I have to keep something private and I have to respect their own privacy as well. On my public Instagram or Twitter, things like that, I don't do that. Facebook, kind of with just friends, like close friends. But even though my work is also my life, travel is our life. I have created this lifestyle that allows us to just flow between work and private life so seamlessly. Some things can also still be kept private and sacred. Everything doesn’t have to be –

I think one of the things that somebody said I found fascinating was – I think it was Brene Brown. She said something about sharing publicly about your bikini wax doesn't mean you're being authentic. It's just maybe oversharing. It’s not to say, you shouldn't do it. I’m not judging. I’m just saying, she had the point that just because I share every single detail of my life, that doesn't mean I'm authentic. That doesn't mean I'm more authentic than somebody that doesn’t share every bit of their life publicly. Lots of things to navigate with social media.

[0:44:10] YD: Yes. You said something really important there that – I hear this one often in my community that people come to me, and they're like, “Well, I'm looking at this successful person on Instagram. I can never measure up to that.” You're not getting the whole story there. You never are getting the full story. When we compare ourselves to somebody on social media, we're just doing ourselves such a disservice.

[0:44:36] LAA: Correct. But also, comparison, I feel like, especially as creative people, doesn’t even make sense, because creativity is subjective. Like you have your own way and you're doing your own thing. The person is doing their own thing. You see them there – I call it – I don’t know. I shared this recently when you see them, and it feels like they're just taking the escalator up to their career with ease. But you never saw when they were crawling to get to the staircase. 

[0:45:07] YD: To close our conversation, I just wanted to ask you two questions. One, what are you most excited about working on right now? I think I know the answer to that. Then the other question.

[0:45:21] LAA: Well, I'm super excited about my new upcoming novel. It's called In Every Mirror She’s Black. The journey has been just an amazing journey, from 70 rejections to now four different publishers going to publish it and probably more. I'm super excited about that journey, and it's one that's really special to my heart because I'm lifting up different voices in Sweden that people never hear about.

I love Sweden. I think I'm one of its biggest ambassadors, but I also have to share some of my love stories, because it's not a one-dimensional place. It's multi-dimensional. Every voice is important. I'm really excited to bring these three women and one white guy. That's the four main characters in the book to the world this September. 

[0:46:07] YD: Everyone listening, check out the book. We’re going to link to the preorder for it. It's an amazing story, so we're very happy that Lola has created it. What I want to close with is sort of this big question, but how would you start answering what it means to be a woman who is stepping into her brilliance today?

[0:46:29] LAA: The one I think about is Becoming, right? It’s like Michelle Obama, that you're always becoming. You're becoming the next best version of yourself. Again, it ties back to that one kind of evolving, transitioning. But I think it's being able to just be, right? To say, “You know what? This is me, imperfections and all, vulnerabilities and all. I am human. I make mistakes. I love crazily. I love passionately. I wish sometimes I did this but then accepting or being gracious to myself as well.” Because what we can do is we tend to extend grace to other people, but we don’t do it to ourselves. We don't say, “You know what? You're okay. I'm fine. I'm human. I made this mistake. What's the worst that could happen?”

People ask me, “When you go on stage, do you get nervous when presenting?” I'm like, “What’s the worst that could happen? I pass out. That just means I’m human. They are not there to see me fail.” When you have that view, that always grounds you, and then nothing becomes too scary, just because life exists and that I’m being. That’s how it feels kind of become just a more effortless version of yourself. 

[0:47:41] YD: Beautiful. Beautiful closure to our conversation. It was such a pleasure to chat with you.

[0:47:48] LAA: Thank you. Thank you, Yulia. We could talk forever, you and I. 

[0:47:51] YD: Yes. Thank you, Lola, and good luck to you with everything. Thank you so much. 

[0:47:54] LAA: Thank you. Likewise.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[0:47:57] YD: Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed this conversation, we’re bringing back to celebrate the multi-talented women who’ve come to our show over the years. If so, I want to ask you to please now take a minute to support our show. You can do that by leaving us a rating, or a review on an Apple Podcast app, or any other app that you’re listening to this podcast on, or by sharing this episode with your friends, your loved ones, maybe posting about it on social media. It really, really helps us get discovered by more listeners that would find our show helpful, and it means so much to me.

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