S8 E90: How To Succeed as A Freelancer with Journalist Lola Méndez

Get the show’s transcript

“LM: I have moments where I regret not going down that path because I think it would be much more lucrative. But then I remember that I'm very grateful for the platforms that I have. And then I get to write about really important topics for major publications and hopefully get that information in front of thousands and thousands of people where I might not have that same ability should I just be creating content for myself. And that's what feels good for me personally.”

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:26] YD: Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Travel Media Lab podcast. I am your host, Yulia Denisyuk an award-winning travel photographer, writer storyteller, community builder, podcaster, and entrepreneur. Working with publications like National Geographic, the New York Times, and More traveling to amazing places around the world and producing stories that I'm excited about.

Travel Media Lab is our platform for helping you break into the travel media space where we share insights, tips, advice, and stories from people working in the in. On the podcast today, we are talking to Lola Mendez, an UA American freelance journalist who writes about sustainability, travel, lifestyle, wellness, LGBTQ plus and Latinx topics for many prints and digital publications, including C N N.

USA Today in Style Elle, and so many more. In addition to her responsible travel blog, miss phil lisa.com. Lola has been a freelance journalist for the past eight years, and she's been very successful at it. This conversation is filled with Lola's insights on tons of trouble riding related topics, such as how she finds publications to write.

What her pitching process looks like. While Lola thinks freelancers can be more successful than editors even, and how she stand up for herself and advocates for her values, I absolutely loved this conversation with Lola and the hour went by so fast. If you only listen to one episode this season, make it be this one.

It is that good. Lola also does consultations for uh, writers, and right now she's offering $50 of her business of freelance writing consultations valid through June 1st of this year, 2023. You can go to Lolaannmendez.com/consultation to check it out, and we're gonna be linking it in the show notes as well.

Lola Anne mendez.com/consultation. And of course, follow Lola on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook at Lola Anna Mendez. And again, we'll link to it in the show notes, but definitely check out Lola's work. It's super, super inspiring. And before we get started today, I want to remind you that this may very soon, I am traveling to Puerto Rico to lead an on assignment workshop there in partnership with wonderful Discover Puerto Rico and Foundation for Puerto Rico.

I'm leading a full day. Media workshop. I am calling on assignments on Thursday, May 18th, 2023 in San Huan, Puerto Rico. During this event, you will get insights and the behind the scenes of what it takes to produce a media assignment in a full day of workshops, discussions, and an actual assignments. As you follow along, step by step, you will also learn how to come up with compelling story ideas, pitch publications, how to partner with tourism boards, and work in the field and so much.

And the amazing part about this workshop is that exclusive to our Travel Media Lab community, a three day creator ticket to Wonderful WITS Summit Women in Travel Summit in Puerto Rico on May 19th through the 21st is included in your registration. So when you register for my workshop, you'll also be getting a three day ticket to attend the summit.

In Puerto Rico where you'll get to, attend different panels, different workshops, network with tourism boards and travel companies. It's just an amazing, amazing event. And the ticket. So that event is included, with the registration fee for my on assignment workshop. This is an amazing deal in which you'll be getting all of, uh, both of those things, a workshop that I'm leading on Thursday and a three day access to the WITS Summit on Friday.

Saturday and Sunday, we have limited spots available for this workshop, and you can register by May 11th, uh, when you go to travelmedialab.com/puerto-rico, and we get, um, Uh, we, we will include the link, uh, to this page in our show notes so you can check out all the details as well. All right. Lots of information today.

I'm super excited for this conversation with Lola and I hope you do too. And if you like this conversation, please share it on social. Tag me, tag me at in search of Perfect Tag, our Travel Media Lab account. We always love to hear, uh, from our listeners, 

All right, now, let's get to this episode.

[INTERVIEW]

[00:05:13] YD: we have today a very exciting guest. We have Lola Mendez, one of rockstar travel journalists and journalists who writes not only about travel, but other topics as well. And we'll, we'll dig into that as well during the conversation today. But honestly, Lola, I've been fangirling you for a long time and I'm so glad that we made a connection at I m M, uh, I think last year and then this year as well.

And finally have you on the podcast. Welcome. I'm super excited to talk to you today.

[00:05:45] LM: Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to be here. I'm a big fan of your work as well.

[00:05:49] YD: Oh, thank you. Yay. Fun girling both, both ways, all the way. That's, that's awesome. 

Cool. Well, um, let's jump, uh, let's jump right in. Um, your story for U S USA Today, A pilgrimage to the Goddess of Fertility, which I loved that title by the way. It's just such a wonderful story and in it you describe your journey, um, of getting to know Hathor, the ancient Egypt, um, goddess of fertility who was sometimes appearing in human form, sometimes in a for form of a beautiful cow.

Um, and, and in that story you're also talking about how, uh, that journey guide guided you to motherhood and someone who is currently thinking about motherhood. Uh, that was so beautiful and I loved reading it. Um, but tell me, what do you love about this story yourself?

[00:06:41] LM: Well, not quite motherhood. I'm not a mother yet or anytime soon, but that story meant a lot to me. In the last two years. I've written quite a few articles for USA Today for the travel section, which had been a big career, uh, aspiration of mine for quite some time to write in black and white newspapers.

My editor there is Josh Rivera, he's really wonderful. He's Latina and he had initially reached out to me a few years ago asking me to write about oi, which is where my family's from, and it was a huge honor and he since let me write about really. Things that are really important to me, such as what to do if you're sexually harassed or assaulted on an airplane.

But this story in particular is really special to me because I thought there was no way anybody would pick it up because it was such a personal journey, and it wasn't necessarily a travel log. You know, I mentioned various sites in Egypt where I started to notice that I was seeing Hathor repeatedly, but it wasn't a traditional guide.

It was very out of the norm of what a travel section of a newspaper would publish. But he let me go for it, and I got such great feedback from readers about the piece. So it was nice to see that, you know, the, the connection between travel and in all aspects of our life, you know, I didn't expect, I, I, I called the piece of pilgrimage to Hathor because it was very unexpected for me.

I had never heard of her, and I grew up being fully obsessed. Egyptian mythology in gods and goddesses, but had never come across this goddess before, who represents so much more than just fertility. She also represents love. Some say she represents alcohol. So it was really fascinating once I started to see that everywhere I was going, she was there and that, in fact, the last temple I visited was the temple erected in her honor.

So it was kind of a standout piece for me because it was personal travel. USA Today doesn't take press trip coverage, so I didn't necessarily have the push from a PR person to land a story to write about it, but it was something that was so personal important to me that I hoped other people could see themselves in and find some inspiration and, and you know, the struggles that we face as people with uteruses has been happening for millions of years.

Right. And so to feel connected with women from thousands of years ago was very empowering.

[00:08:47] YD: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yeah. I, and, and I felt that, I felt, I felt that connection. Um, it was, it was really lovely for me to, to read your piece because I'm also, um, fascinated by ancient Egypt. So, uh, it was beautiful. And I, I, I think I've heard of Hathor maybe once or twice before, but never really in depth. She doesn't really have, like you said, she doesn't really have that same, uh, I guess profile as some other, some other gods, uh, in ancient Egypt panta on, uh, which is kind of interesting why that is, you know, uh, I don't know.

Did you come across that in your, in your, uh, research or in your travel in terms of why she's not as high profile? Why, why not? Why don't more people know about her?

[00:09:31] LM: I don't remember the exact dates, but I did come across it. But she, I believe, was quite important in ancient Egypt, and then her worship filtered into ISIS's worship, worship in the next.

Generations. But I'm not an Egyptologist. I'm not a historian. So off the top of my mind, I don't necessarily remember the exact era that that's which kind of happened.

But that's what, that's what happens across many religions, you know? And in Peru you'll see paintings of the Virgin Mary with a dress like a triangle. And that's because that's how the indigenous people who were forced to convert to Christianity were like, okay, so Mary's kind of like tiera madre

[00:10:12] YD: Pachamama

[00:10:14] LM: so she's a mountain.

So the dress is really a mountain because people find a way to have found ways in the path to stick to their animus beliefs, even when they're being forced to convert to another religion. And we see that across Christianity across the globe.

[00:10:28] YD: Definitely, yeah, a lot of, uh, a lot of the, um, in, in Northern Europe, which, which is kind of the area that I'm familiar with cuz you know, that's where I grew up. A lot of those sort of pagan, um, traditions have migrated into Christmas into celebrating Christmas, which is also, um, really interesting.

Well, cool. So how did, um, travel first come into your life and, um, sounds like you are a, you know, you said you grew up in Uruguay. You're, you're, you spent some time in the us now you're in, uh, Puerto Vals. It sounds like you were always kind of moving around, but how did you first start traveling and then how did you start or how did storytelling and journalism and writing come into your life as well?

[00:11:13] LM: It's a long story. I, so I grew up mostly in the us. My father was from Uruguay, so I essentially had a passport from birth because we would go to Uruguay every few years to visit. When I was three, I moved to South America, to Uruguay. We moved back to the US when I was five. So although I had the immense privilege to be traveling every few years outside of the US, I was only traveling to Uruguay, purely to see family.

So it wasn't until I was 19 I think, that I ever went to another country other than the two that I was from. And when I was 19, I was pitching universities from Los Angeles in New York City. I had a month off between schools and my maternal grandfather who. Had been a lieutenant in World War II with a big cruiser.

He was in his late eighties and he was going on a month long cruise around Central America. This well before I knew anything about sustainability, but he invited me to go. And so I was 19 and I got to go to Panama, Costa Rica, Colombia, Ecuador, and Aruba. And because he was so old, he wasn't really getting off the ship.

So I was kind of by myself experiencing these places and going on excursions or just walking around by myself and really fell in love. And it was comfortable for me because it was still in a language that I spoke.

[00:12:30] YD: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:12:31] LM: when I was 21, I went to Europe for the first time. I skipped my college graduation, and instead I flew to Spain.

I was visiting some cousins there. So I had in my first big solo trip. And then at 24 I went back to Europe and I visited my sister who was studying abroad in London. And we went to France. And France was the first country I ever visited where I did not speak the language and it was. So overwhelming to me.

Unfortunately, my sister is completely fluent in French, but she had to leave a day early cause she forgot she had a midterm. So I was by myself in Paris, completely, completely lost. And people were actually quite nice to me, like people did help me. This is way before Google Maps, you know, I had my map quest directions printed out.

Us trying to go to a really famous cemetery to see, I don't even remember whose, whose gravestone I wanted to see. But it was way outside of the city and it was such a mess. 

And then a year later I resigned from my career. I was a publicist in the fashion industry in New York City

I just knew I wanted to do something different.

It's actually coming up on eight years, uh, next week.

[00:13:38] YD: Ah.

[00:13:39] LM: And I thought that I was going to move to Uruguay. I wanted to start a nonprofit focusing on helping women who were dealing with domestic abuse have a bridge out of that violence through craft. We have a big craft industry in Uruguay and we have, unfortunately, a very high rate of fide, and I didn't do that and I'm so grateful I didn't because I knew nothing about how that would've worked at the time.

And instead, I moved to Spain and that's why I really started to learn about decolonizing my mind because I grew up thinking that Spain was the motherland and my ancestors and not really ever having anyone tell me the reality that Spain was actually, you know, very violent and murdered my ancestors. So that was a really Pi big shift in my life.

I was 25 from there. I was in, lived in Italy, in Florence, and I. Suddenly lost my job. I had less, I think, than a thousand dollars and I refused to go back to the us So I took an 18 hour bus from Florence to Zagreb, Croatia, and I spent the summer in the Balkans. I was cleaning hostels and I was looking for ways to make money.

And I saw there was a website called Hostels with a z.com and they were paying $10 to make hostile reviews. And I was like, great. That's less than a, that's less in the Balkan. At the time, it was less than what it cost to stay in a hostel, so that was enough for me to pay for my accommodation and my food.

So I'd switched hostels every two or three days and was able to get by. And then in a Facebook group for female travelers, I saw a post, uh, from Alex, who is the owner of Travel Fashion Girl. She's El Salvadorian, and she was looking for people to write packing guides to various cities around the world.

And I was like, well, You know, I've worked in fashion for over a decade. I'm packing my suitcase every three days. I can do this. So that was my first byline article, and it was a packing guide to Uruguay, and I really only wrote for her for about a year. I was making 5 cents a word, which I thought was wild, that anybody would pay me that much to write.

And then you, you know, I just couldn't believe that I was making a nickel a word, which I now know is a very bad rate

[00:15:56] YD: It's funny. It's funny how our perspective changes, right? Because now you're like, I'm not taking that, that rate because it's such a low rate. But when you started, you're like, yes, somebody's paying

[00:16:06] LM: Totally. And at that level in my career, it was absolutely inappropriate rate for me to be making. I had no experience. I had no idea what I was doing. She taught me so much. And then I believe I was in Thailand and I met a writer who was in binders, and I was like, what is this group? Because if you remember, I was a publicist, so I already had contacts with editors.

I already knew the email configuration for Conde Nas, for Hearst, for Meredith, for all these different publishers. But I hadn't been pitching them because I thought I had no business doing it. You know, I didn't go to the journalism school. I didn't have clips in big publications. And this writer I met, who's now I think the editor in chief of publication was super encouraging.

She's like, just do it. So I just started doing it and I started to write for some very like low paying publications like Master Store Network, which at the time paid $40 an

[00:16:55] YD: an article. Yes.

[00:16:56] LM: And I wrote some really, really important pieces for them. I wrote a piece about the Rohingya crisis in Myanmar that I spent at least 40 hours on.

I was, you know, reading, um, reports from the human right organizations, and I was made $40. So I basically made a dollar an hour for that piece, but I'm still very proud of it. And I wrote another piece for them about how to interact with children who live on the streets in India. They spent six months living in India, working with nonprofits there, and noticed that people hand out candy or this or that, rather than taking, you know, a banana, a water bottle, some maybe protein or fiber dense crackers, and that people just, they didn't have, there wasn't mal intention with that, right?

They thought they were doing a nice thing, but I thought it was really important to educate people on how, how you can truly help these children and not harm them, you know? So, And from there, obviously it's just taken off over the last six or seven years and it's my full-time job now. It's the only stream of income that I have and the last year or so, I've been focusing mostly on travel writing.

I missed it a lot in the pandemic. I did manage to still write a lot of travel pieces, first few years of the pandemic, but I really want to get back into that more than other topics, which I do enjoy writing about. But travel's the most fun cause you get to go to places.

[00:18:19] YD: it sounds like your entrance was pretty organic and pretty serendipitous. Even like you've met certain people along the way who kind of guided you, which, which is really cool.

And, uh, you know, kind of organically went into this. Um, I, I'm curious cause this is something that I come across, uh, often in, in, in people that I meet who are interested in this industry. And also my, myself, I've experienced this. It's like, especially at the beginning, you're like, and I think you mentioned that too, it's like, what business do I have pitching them, you know?

Iterations of that are, I never went to journalism school. I never learned how to write. It's more like a, something that I want to do, but I've never studied it. So I guess, I guess what I'm, what I'm asking is this imposter syndrome, right? That many of us are experiencing, like, what business do I have pitching them?

How did you overcome that? 

[00:19:13] LM: Yeah, for me, I realized that I had always been a writer. Yeah. I used to write plays for my family to act out and during the holidays or short books, I loved doing research. I took AP history and English so that I could write all the time. And my first few internships, and I was 17 living in Los Angeles. I interned for LA Metro Mix, which used to be a free magazine in the LA time.

So I worked on their fashion desk, writing about events. And then I interned at CBS on the Young and The Restless. And I was writing a fashion magazine on a, like a blog spot, like 2007. It was

[00:19:49] YD: Wow.

[00:19:50] LM: Uh, that and in the fashion magazine with actually on the TV show. So my, my first, you know, work experience outside of gig work in high school was in writing.

And as a publicist, you write constantly. I mean, you receive the pitches, it's not quite as creative, but I was constantly writing the, the more. I mostly felt pressure from peers who didn't appreciate someone becoming a journalist who didn't go to journalism school. Like I felt a lot of pressure from other people kind of telling me I didn't belong, and I just ignored it because I was saying that my stories had value, that I had interesting perspectives on the places I had been.

And most importantly, I never centered myself. Every piece I write, I highlight the voices of the people I talk to in that country. I don't really write about like my experience here or like what I thought about this place. I don't really think that's appropriate or interesting. And thus I'm writing about places where I've lived for years.

Like, oh boy, no. And. I now do consultations with writers about the business of freelance writing, and many of the people I've worked with have gone to journalism school and did not learn how to pitch. They learn how to apply for staff jobs, to be in a newsroom, to be, you know, pitching amongst other writers, getting assignments and tackling them, which is excellent, but that is not how it works when you're freelanced and this industry is so unstable that I truly believe you are likely to have more financial success as a freelancer.

Well, you're not, you're not worried about being laid off. Obviously, when editors get laid off, it puts a big dent in freelancers work as well, because we no longer know who to pitch. You know, I've been, I've been doing a lot of follow ups today and I've had at least 10 bounce backs from editors that a week ago we're at a publication and now they're not.

And I didn't, I didn't know that. Right. So it, it puts, it makes it difficult as a freelancer too. But I also have a thousand other publications that can pitch that story to, you know, so. I, I don't know if I would ever be on staff. There are obviously huge privileges with being on staff, and it probably makes it much easier to go on a press tip, for instance, where you can have a confirmed assignment, a guaranteed coverage.

But for me, the lifestyle dip of having to potentially live in the US to work 40 hours a week to have two weeks vacation, just absolutely not interesting to me whatsoever.

[00:22:19] YD: Oh my goodness. I love that. Uh, so many things you said in there that I, I, I just resonated with so much. But there are two that I want to sort of pull out. One was, um, I think what, what you said is really important, that you don't center yourself. You center other people and their experiences and their voices and their perspectives.

And I just wanna drive that point home because a lot of people who, uh, who I speak to inside travel media community and, and elsewhere too, they still have this kind of idea that travel writing is similar to travel blogging, which travel blogging is often about. You know, I went here, I did this, you know, it's all about me and my own experience.

And that's why people actually read travel blogs, I think, because they want that ex, that perspective, that personal perspective. But for travel writers, right? It's, it's almost never like that outside of those personal essays that we, we just, uh, mentioned. It's really is that the focus is on the people, places, stories that you uncover and that's just so important and.

Um, I love that you mentioned that, and then the 

second p uh, piece that you said, which I was like, oh, my ears perked up. Uh, your, your point that you think that freelancers can actually make more money than editors in terms of, you know, because I guess tell me more about what, uh, what you, what you, what you mean there.

How, how do you think about that?

[00:23:43] LM: Yeah, I mean, it's something I used to be very transparent about on Twitter, and I had a lot of ha, a lot of haters, a lot of people saying I was lying and it's being really violent and aggressive towards me, so I stopped sharing it. It's actually why I launched my newsletter because I was sharing every month on Twitter, how many pitches I have sent, how I've been accepted, how many hours I worked, and how much money I made, and people didn't

[00:24:04] YD: People were against that. Why were they against that? They were,

[00:24:07] LM: There are a lot of people in this industry who would prefer that other people don't get ahead and that operate in the scarcity mindset. I'm sure you've come across that. I, I, it's so important to me to be transparent because like I said, I didn't go to journalism school. I had Alex, this wonderful editor at her blog who taught me so much, and then the Ssy, this woman who told me about this Facebook group.

And without them, I don't know what I would be doing for work right now, you know? So I, I wanna pay that forward and showcase that you can be successful. Granted, I do, I have lived outside of the US for eight years, so I don't pay $3,000 a month in rent and I wouldn't be able to maintain my work-life balance should I live in the us but I work usually less than 10 hours a week.

Not including press trip time, but, and press trips are obviously work. They're not free travel. It really, I, cause me when people are like, I'm on a free trip, it's like, oh, you don't have to do anything in return. Like, wow, how did you get that? But, um, I don't go to places I don't actually want to go. So when I'm on a press trip for a week for two weeks and it's 24 7 nonstop, I don't clock those hours because I want to be there.

And I am enjoying the experience too. But anything else, like even when I'm doing my taxes, I have my timer going because in the beginning of the pandemic, when I obviously like anyone else who focused on travel writing, lost all my retainer clients, had many stories that had already been, been commissioned, be killed, and for weeks and weeks and weeks, wasn't getting any commissions and was like, oh my God, I'm never gonna write about travel again in my life.

And I felt like I was working 80 hours a week, but I was on my computer, I was on Facebook, WhatsApp, Twitter, Instagram, and like sending an email an. And I realized I was so drained and felt so burnt out because I just considered my computer to be open, to be time I was working. Now, when I'm working, I don't do any social media, any texting that isn't related to what I'm working on, right?

And I realized that, oh, I actually work much, much less than that. And it helps me figure out if a story is worth my time. You know, if a story's only gonna pay $200, but it takes me an hour to write, okay, I'm good with the 200 hour rate that's based, that's what I aim for. And it's what I usually hit each month, about 200 an hour, uh, about 200 per hour that I work.

And that includes research, pitching, emailing, following up with sources, editing, editing photos, like anything related to what I'm doing for work. I time myself. And for instance, I, I think the highest paying story I've written this year so far was $2,225. But that story probably took me about maybe. 5, 6, 7 hours to write.

So I made a great, great hourly rate and I've done some pieces like that before that weren't necessarily super, that piece was interesting to me. But I've done some other pieces that weren't super interesting to me, but I basically was making three or $400 an hour. So great. That gives me more room to write some lower paying pieces about topics I'm really passionate about or press strip coverage.

[00:27:13] YD: Yeah. Oh my God, I love that so much. And I think our audience is gonna love this as well, because there's so many, um, very insightful recommendations that you're making here. And, and one of them is, Know your time, know your work, right? Know where your time is going and how productive you are, and how many hours you're spending on various tasks associated with, again, pitching, editing, writing, uh, which I think is super, uh, super insightful.

Um, and, and productivity and being distracted by social media and being drained by that. You know, it's, it's so important that you are aware of all these topics and you organized your week accordingly so that you are, you're more productive. I just, I just love that so much. Um, but you said something in there, um, what was it you said, oh, you said, you said, you know, you try to figure out if the story's worth your time.

So how do you actually do that? Is it because I, I, I wanna pick apart a bit your process of coming up with stories and pitching them. Is it because let's say you have an idea and you're like, okay, I know it would be perfect for afar. And I know afar pays on average X, and I know that probably based on my experience, it would take me an hour to write it.

So is it worth my time? Is that the process or kind of how, how do you think

[00:28:30] LM: Yeah, basically, I mean there's, there's a practice that people use that's like prestige pay and a few other Ps that I don't remember. The mine. Mine follows a similar drift where first and foremost is it pay my rate. So I try not to write anything that's under 50 cents a word. I would really like that to be 75 cents a word, but that just hasn't been very realistic given the landscape of media right now as we continue to be in Covid and many, many publications continue to have a frozen freelance budget.

The second is, how much time do I think it will take me to write? How many people do I have to interview? Am I already intimately in the know on the topic? I don't really write much about things that I'm not super aware of anymore unless it's something that's really exciting to me. So I wrote a piece recently about sustainable banking and investing, which I knew nothing about, but I really wanted to know about, right?

So again, that's kind of what I feel like I'm doing, getting paid to do homework. And so how much does it pay? How long will it take me? Is it a topic that's really important to me? You know, does it support a nonprofit? Does it support a company that think you're doing really cool work? Is it someone who I really think deserves to be profiled?

The fourth would be if it's press trip coverage. You know, obviously I try to make the most amount of money I can from my stories, but once I've pitched some of the big hitters, maybe I'm, maybe I move on to publication that pays a little bit less. But I, I usually write multiple stories out of a press strip.

I think that is what makes the most amount of sense. As a freelancer, I don't, I don't understand that people can survive if they write one story per trip as a freelancer, but that's just me. Um, and I feel, oh, and then the other one I started to consider is my relationship with the editor and the publication.

So how has my relationship been with the editor in the past? And obviously I don't really pitch people who I've had a bad experience with.

[00:30:19] YD: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:20] LM: Was I paid on time? If I wasn't paid on time, did the editor advocate for me? If they were in New York and they paid late, did they pay me double as per freelances and free?

So I started to think more about the business side in the last year or so. So I have a pitch tracking document where I think the column is publication, the story name. Uh, did I file an invoice? Yes or no or like, you know, what different third party website do they use for that, uh, the due date when I was paid.

So then I can see, oh, I filed this January 1st and now it's March 23rd. And I haven't been paid. I don't wanna write for them again, I don't have the luxury of waiting two or more months to get paid. And some publications, especially print pay on publishing, but they're upfront about that. So you know that when you're signing your contract and then you can set aside whatever you need knowing, okay, that $2,000 isn't actually gonna hit my bank account for six months.

I just, I try to, I think a lot of writers, that's why I call my, I call my consultations the business of freelance writing, because I think many writers don't approach this work as a business. And you have to, it's what it is. I mean, I know there are plenty of writers who write for hobby, who are independently wealthy or have wealthy families or wealthy partners.

That's fine and good, but for the majority of us,

[00:31:39] YD: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:40] LM: we're doing this to make a living too. Like we're writing for work, for for money.

[00:31:44] YD: Yeah. Yeah. And I love how, how, um, how detailed oriented you are and, and how. Yeah, how you've just really approach it as a business that's really smart. And obviously it's paid off for you because, you know, you, you've, you've written, you've written for so many different publications, you know, we'll, we'll mention some of them, like c n n, like Food and Wine, cosmopolitan and others.

And you, you said you, you've been doing this for eight years now, and this is your only, um, source of income, which is really cool. 

So I guess I'm curious, uh, two, two things I'm curious about. One is, how did you, um, how did you first think about extending into other topics besides travel? Because I, I know that you write about social justice, about, uh, veganism, about, uh, beauty and wellness and other topics as well.

So, uh, how did you first think about, um, um, uh, expanding into those and was it easy, the process, is it the same, I guess, process of, you know, identifying publications in those verticals and pitching them? Or does it differ from travel in some way?

[00:32:50] LM: prior to the pandemic, I dabbled a little bit in other verticals and a lot of it would be rooted in my own personal experience. So I had written a bit about issues related to like the Latinx experience in United States. A lot of what I wrote that was outside of travel were personal essays or really interesting stories that came across my inbox from publicists that I decided to pitch.

And so then in the pandemic when travel the, you know, the first few months of 2020 for six months, nobody had budget for that. So it was out of necessity, you know, that I had to pivot in order to thrive. Right?

[00:33:31] YD: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:32] LM: Like a lot of writers, I started writing about Covid and it was awful and I hated it. But I, I was very fortunate that I wrote quite a few pieces for herself.

They were doing a series of q and as with people who were doing really amazing work in the pandemic, whether that be, I interviewed a friend of mine who's an anesthesiologist nurse, so, you know, she was coming face-to-face with people who were so sick with Covid. They needed to be, um, incubated. You know, she was, she was at such a huge risk.

I interviewed an alcohol distributor like liquor that was in making hand sanitizer and distributing for free in their community. So that was really cool. And then I interviewed a high school, well, really grade school friend of mine who is an emergency room trauma one nurse and was six months pregnant when the pandemic started and decided to continue working.

And I wrote that for Elle. He, I was really desperate to write pieces that would get people to care and I don't know what could make someone care more than a young pregnant mom. Who's saving people's lives. No. So that was really important to me, but it's also super, super depressing and draining. So I think probably about a year after a year I started to stray away from Covid and focus more on what was happening in social justice circles and also in sustainability.

I really feel like my portfolio in sustainability factor built up quite a bit in those first two years of the pandemic, which I'm really grateful for. I wrote a lot of sustainability pieces for Arc Digest, for Parade, for Readers Digest. So I really enjoyed that and sustainability is very important to me and it's, it's both personally and professionally.

You know, it's something I'm thinking about all day long. I think it comes across in most of my writing. I believe everything can be more sustainable. You know, it's, uh, challeng. I, at I M M I talked to a friend of mine who's an editor who just told me how sustainability stories aren't doing well on their site, that their readers just aren't clicking on headlines that are about a sustainable guide to the city.

[00:35:30] YD: Wow.

[00:35:31] LM: disappointing. Um, and I know obviously publications are driven by their readers and what they're gonna click, right? So even though this editor is super, super eco-minded, she has to commission what's going to work out well for her publication. And, and that comes down to society, right?

That if readers aren't interested, it's, it's really scary, honestly. But I also just landed my first piece for Vogue, which will be a sustainable guide to a city. So it's possible, you just have to keep pitching it.

[00:36:02] YD: Yeah. Do you think it's because people are tired of, of, is it like a fatigue of Uh, cuz I read, I read an article on this where, uh, I think there was some research that it's not that people, it, it, it's like they feel helpless, you know? They're like, well, what can I really do? It feels like, you know, you, you're giving me, you're giving me a responsibility or you're giving me the, the, the pressure of changing something where it's like the big oil and gas that needs to change.

So I'm not even gonna click on this. Like, what, what, how do you think about that? Um,

[00:36:36] LM: that, that, uh, train of thought is really disturbing to me. Cause if we don't think we can make changes in our lives, I can imagine what kind of life that must be to live. And of course, those big oil companies or you know, the H&M'S of the world, they don't have a business if we don't buy from.

Consumers have power that I think a lot of the conversation about the largest polluters being this company or that company, it's important for us to be aware, but those companies don't exist without us. And I think that people who I've written about eco guilt, which I think is different than just being, oh, there's something I could do.

Because there's so much you can do that doesn't make a negative impact in your life at all. I mean, and I know it's simple and a lot of people don't think it's enough, but something as simple as having a reusable water bottle, you, I mean, this one was gifted to me, but you buy it once, so you're also saving money cause you're not buying two, three plastic water bottles every day.

And if you live in most places in the US or Europe, you have portable water in your house.

[00:37:34] YD: Yeah.

[00:37:35] LM: So it's not only cheaper, it's also elevating. Your life, because when you travel and you buy plastic water bottles, there are some places that refill them and close them very, very tightly, and you don't know that.

And they might have refilled them somewhere that doesn't have potable water that would be suitable for your gut biome because you're not familiar with the water of that place. Right. So you might end up getting very sick from buying a plastic bottled water where if you have your reusable water that you're refilling from a big jug in a restaurant or in your accommodation, you're gonna be fine.

[00:38:06] YD: Mm-hmm.

[00:38:06] LM: thing comes down with something like, I lived in Southeast Asia for four and a half years and I always took my own chopsticks because the number one reason why people get food poisoning is usually from the utensils, not the

[00:38:17] YD: Interesting. I didn't know that.

[00:38:18] LM: Yeah. Because I mean, if you've been around Southeast Asia, the utensils kind of get tossed in a bucket of soapy water and then pulled out.

They don't have time to be like deep cleaning them. Right. And many probably have single-use chopstick, but. Why wouldn't I spend $2 on reusable ones that I don't have to use the plastic, I'm not wasting the wood, and I can go home and clean them and ensure my own health and safety. But just like little things like that, they do make a big difference.

[00:38:45] YD: Yeah, totally do, totally do. I love that. I, I love that conversation and, and I agree with you that it's, uh, it's kind of depressing to hear that, you know, people aren't clicking on those, those stories and those on those titles, but that's why it's, it's important to, in every opportunity we, we can, uh, to, to have this conversation.

Right. And to dispel some of these myths. 

Um, I was wondering when you were talking about writing for self, um, and doing some of that other work that again, is not about trouble. How do you find some of those? Because at least personally for me, Like I have now the six years of doing this, I have a pretty good network now of, you know, people in the industry and editors and I kind of know, but it's mostly travel focused.

So if I think about pitching self today, I wouldn't even know what to do beyond the basics of, you know, going on LinkedIn and looking for a self-edit or going and seeing if they have guidelines or the masthead or whatever. Is that how you approach it as well? Um, in terms of like when you're pitching a new publication

[00:39:49] LM: And I've never looked for an editor on LinkedIn. I, I use Twitter. I hope Twitter doesn't go away

[00:39:56] YD: Twitter is a great resource.

[00:39:57] LM: Yeah, I'm not happy with this happening there, but I really hope it doesn't go away. So I just use the search tool. I, so my, both of my editors in style are some of the editors that I realized today are no longer there.

And I was following up on a pitch and they both bounced back. So I went to Twitter and searched in style editor. I did not find the new editor, but that's how I learned that they both are no longer at the publication. So Twitter is a goldmine for contacts, binders, you know, I'm in travel binders, which I know we're not supposed to talk about, but I think that's ridiculous.

But there, there are binders, which are only for women and non-binary writers available for many, many different facets of the industry. And then old school looking at a mast head, that's super easy to find. I think it's quicker to find than it is even pitching guidelines. And I subscribe to many different newsletters.

I search calls for pitches on Twitter constantly. Part of the offering that I give to the writers that I do consultations with is I have a master database of editor contacts, and I have a Facebook group where I'm constantly posting calls for pitches, so they get access to that. So really it's like we've hopped your pitches.

Now you have 2000 editor contacts, now you have to send the pitch.

Like that's, that's as far as far as I can go.

[00:41:13] YD: I know, right? Which is often, by the way, what I've come across is like, the biggest challenge for people is, you know, you give, you give them, you supply them with all the tools, but then that hesitation at the end, which, you know, comes back to that conversation about imposter syndrome and do I belong here?

Does my voice belong here? Which I think is why it's so important for, uh, people like you to be speaking out and to, to, um, to say that, yes, I do belong here. You know, whether or not I have a journalistic background, and this is something that I believe in as well. This is what the, the platform is even built upon, is that we all have a voice.

We all have an insight. We all have a story to tell. And if we feel strongly that we want to do that, then, you know, uh, we have every, um, every, every right to be here, uh, journalistic background or not. So, yeah, I, I really, I really resonate with that as well. 

[00:42:08] LM: there's so many free resources too. So, you know, like the interview that we're doing now in the past podcast that you've done with other writers, I, I don't know how many podcast interviews I've done. Maybe this is my sixth or seventh, but I put them all on my consultation page. So before you even get to my price structure, you get to freebies.

So you, I think after this, I think I'll have six hours of podcasts that you can listen to several articles that I've written about how to pitch. So if you don't want to invest in it, that's okay, but you have to take the time then to read or to listen. And I find a lot of people have a lot of expectations that you're just gonna be available, especially people like us who are very transparent in our experiences.

I get lots of dms daily, people don't even say like, hi, I'm so-and-so, how are you? I really enjoyed this piece. They're like, Hey, who do I pitch here? How did, how much money did you make there? And I'm like, oh, I don't know. You And

And, and I, and I try and I think I give a lot, right? I think I give a lot.

And that was actually the whole reason why I started my consultation service. And I did it for a year first with some friends, like some blogger friends who wanted to start writing for publications. So I like tested it out to see how it would go. But I did it because I would spend so much time answering these dms.

At the end of the day, I hadn't actually worked on my de my deadline.

[00:43:25] YD: Yeah.

[00:43:26] LM: Cause I love to help people. It's so gratifying. It makes me feel so good when I have worked with a writer and they have landed a story and they're like, oh my God, I can do this. Oh my God, my, my voice matters. The story that I wanna share matters.

[00:43:38] YD: yeah,

[00:43:39] LM: It feels so good to help that person get there. But I can't do that all day. I also have to make a living.

[00:43:45] YD: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Absolutely. Oh my God, I love that we're talking about that, uh, right now, Lola, because same, and, and it really irks me to be honest. So, hey, if you're listening to. Podcast listeners, and you decide to DM anyone, not just me or Lola, but anyone please, please, just at least show courtesy, right?

Like, that's always kills me because I, I DM people too, uh, a lot of times, but I would never DM somebody like, Hey, what did you do? Or like, Hey, what about this? No, at least like say, hi, so and so, how are you? Like, just basic stuff. But a lot of the dms that I get are exactly like that. It's like, it's like they're, they're acting like I owe them something and I don't, I really don't.

And I feel strongly about this. Um, and that's why I started charging for also consultations. And now when people send me those dms, I'm like, if you, if you wanna dig into this, here's a link to my consultation. You know, I honestly don't have time for this because I am a freelancer as well. Um, but I wanna say that, and, and we will link to, of course, we'll link to, um, Lola's story.

Uh, about, um, Hathor. And we'll also link to that amazing page of consultations that Lola does because I was checking it out and I saw that paragraph of freebies and I was like, ha dang, this is amazing. And I actually, I actually sent one of your articles to our group, our circle, you know, cuz we have a membership.

And I sent it to them and I'm like, Hey guys, read this. This is gold. This is really good. So it's amazing that you put those resources together. So listeners definitely check it out. We'll link to it in the show notes. Um, and that's, and that's really awesome and I think that's why I also wanted to speak to you and, and bring you in, um, for the podcast because that's, um, spirit of, of sharing and of empowering and of, uh, bringing in more people into the industry, um, is, is amazing because for, for such a long time this industry was such a closed.

Closed, closed industry, you had no idea how to enter it. You had no idea how to navigate it. I think you and I both experienced this because we, we started at about the same time I started six years ago, and you know, even then it was pretty hard and there was no enter like you couldn't find how, what publications want.

Now they're becoming more transparent, which is cool. Um, but yeah, I think it's so important that people who want to enter it are able to enter

it, right?

[00:46:13] LM: Yeah, and I, I obviously DM people too, but I DM industry friends that I have an established rapport with who know I will give them whatever they're looking for, that, you know, I have zero interest in transactional relationships in my personal life, but in prof, in a professional setting, it needs to be a give and take.

So whenever I ask someone for a contact, I say, let me know what you're working on. Do like, let me know what you need or, or DM me in the future, or like, look at my portfolio and if you want one of those contacts, let me know. And I feel really fortunate to have a really strong community in this industry who.

Will answer me when I am looking for an editor contact, and I never would message 'em first. I would always look for myself first, because I respect their time too, but I always make it super clear. I'm asking for this and I can offer you this.

[00:46:59] YD: Yeah. Oh, I love that. I love that so much. And, and you mentioned community, right? This is so important because also it's been my experience, especially in the beginning, like you said, that it was very cuts throat. People didn't want me to succeed, or not, not, not even so much that they didn't want me to succeed, but it was more like nobody wanted to share.

And, and, and that's scarcity of, oh, if you are successful, that means you're taking away from my opportunities. And I honestly like a hundred percent do not believe that because I feel like. All the stories that we're pursuing are so unique to us. Like what I am gonna write and what I wanna say will be so different from what you write and what you want to say because of all of our like, lived experiences that we bring to this.

So I never see all of us as competitors, you know, it's, I don't know. It's, um, and even in, you know, even, even let's be just completely like on, uh, you know, transparent completely here. Like you do consultations, I do consultations. Mic Trimble, who I had on the podcast does consultations. Christine Chiney, who I recently had on the podcast, does consult.

We all do the same thing that we could, you know, perhaps provide to people. I will never say, oh, I'm not gonna have her on a podcast because she's competing. She can do consultations. I can look. I'm like, no. Like, dude, like we all can do everything and still be successful because a, I believe that people are drawn to other people for. Um, we all find our people, let's say, right? So somebody would be interested in working with me because of my style. Somebody would be interested in working with you because of your experience and your style. So that's one. But two, also, the pool is big enough, honestly. So no needs to feel like, oh, like it's mine.

I don't want anybody else. You know, like, I, I don't know. I feel very strongly about it.

[00:48:47] LM: I fully agree with you.

[00:48:48] YD: Yeah. Awesome. Well, I'm, I'm so glad. And yeah, definitely check out consultations that, uh, Lola does cuz we're, we're gonna link to it and she has amazing, uh, experience and expertise in this field. Um, so speaking of expertise and experience, so obviously again, you are very skilled at, um, you know, coming up with ideas, coming up with stories, and then pitching them and placing them.

What would you say is the most, um, the biggest misconception that you come across, uh, for this profession or for what you do?

[00:49:23] LM: Oh, that it's just glamorous all the time.

[00:49:26] YD: I love 

[00:49:27] LM: that.

we get massages every day and we fly first class everywhere, and editors are waiting for our pitches and they're gonna offer us thousands of dollars. Like, it's a lot of 

work. like like it's a, it's a lot of work. I'm, I cannot imagine doing anything else in my life, but I don't know of many other jobs that have so many unpaid hours.

Like, so much unpaid work goes into a story, right? I, the piece I wrote about sustainable banking, I had been pitching that for over a year and a half.

[00:49:58] YD: Mm.

[00:49:59] LM: And that is the p that is the piece that I was paid $2,225 for. So it worked out,

[00:50:04] YD: Yeah.

[00:50:05] LM: but it doesn't always work out like

[00:50:06] YD: a years worth of time that you, you, you spent on. Right.

[00:50:10] LM: And at that point, after pitching it for a year and a half, I really believe in my stories. I will pitch them until they land. I don't care how many years it takes, I would. If I pitched it somewhere else and they offered me 300, 400, 500, I would've also been thrilled. But there's just so much unpaid time that goes into even sending a pitch, especially when you have countless rounds of edits.

You know, if an editor completely changes the direction, goes off, the brief goes off the scope of work or just expected to say, okay, and I pushed back. You know, I say we've really, you know, for an additional graph, what's your budget like? That wasn't a part of the brief. I should have been told this upfront.

Uh, but it's not a misconception though. But I think a misconception is that it's just the same as like travel influencing, which is not, I have been on trips with travel influencers who are being paid $30,000 to be in the place and post pictures of themselves in the place, and that's it. So, and I'm not saying that's not a lot of work because it is,

[00:51:09] YD: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:51:10] LM: but it's not as much work, unpaid work and like pitching.

Right. Because they're gonna write the piece for themselves. They might even just be writing an Instagram caption. You know, and that's okay, but I think we should keep these things very separate cuz it can be really hard to be on a trip with someone and you're up till 1:00 AM writing a story. And you will maybe make a thousand dollars from three stories about the trip.

And you know, the person next to you is making $30,000 from the company directly. There're two different fields. There's a lot of gray in between them, but they're very, very different. 

And I have moments where I regret not going down that path because I think it would be much more lucrative. But then I remember that I'm very grateful for the platforms that I have.

And then I get to write about really important topics for major publications and hopefully get that information in front of thousands and thousands of people where I might not have that same ability should I just be creating content for myself. And that's what feels good for me personally.

[00:52:08] YD: It's funny that you say that because that was actually gonna be my question after, after, after hearing that. It's like, why not go into that and then if it's, if it's that much more lucrative, um,

[00:52:18] LM: My cousin does influencer marketing for a beauty brand, and she's like, do it. And I, you know, every once in a while I do a sponsored post if it's something that's super relevant to my, my ethics, my perspective on things. But it's a very fine line. And I wouldn't ever go on a press trip where I was paid because then I could never write about that press trip.

And if editors were to find out that I've traveled as an influencer where a truism board paid me, that might get me blacklisted. 

[00:52:48] YD: Do you think, do you really think, even though it was like, even though you wouldn't be pitching stories from that trip, but the, just the fact that you took that trip as an influencer or you think would hurt your

[00:52:58] LM: I know, I know that I've, I've been told that by editors.

[00:53:01] YD: really

[00:53:02] LM: Yeah, I've been told. And, uh, at the end of the day, I think what will be long-lasting for me is journalism. We don't know where influencing is gonna go. I really, em implore people who are taking that path to focus more on their own personal website, their blog, because we don't own Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, that can go away at any moment, as we've seen with all the uncertainty around Twitter the last few weeks.

And you know, in Instagram and Facebook has broken down more than ever, it feels like the last few years that we don't know where that could go. And so if you spend so much time building that and that disappears, that's, that's awful. But you own your website, right? Like you own your website. So I think if you're gonna go the influencer route, of course you have to build up a big following on social media.

But I would say put your energy into your blog. And I also think it's very important. That we talked a little bit about this, the difference between writing for yourself for a blog and writing for yourself for a publication. And editors are aware of that too. So if you've only ever blogged, you're going to have to prove to the editor that you can write to a different tone and voice outside of your own.

Because when you write for your own blog, you're writing probably the way you speak, you know, you're sharing what you need to share. If you did a campaign with a tourism board, they're probably funneling some talking points your way. You know, they might have even, um, ghost written the piece for you, and then you just put your name on it and like add in some EU that sound like things that you would say, but an editor's gonna know that.

And so the biggest difference to me between a journalist and a blogger, it's a journalist. I, I, I just counted, I, I received 21 10 90 nines this year and plenty of publications that don't own me

[00:54:39] YD: That's sweet. I saw that sweet that you posted about that. Yeah.

[00:54:43] LM: So I, I don't know the exact number, but I probably wrote for 40 publications this year. That's 40 different voices, 40 different tones, 40 different style guides that I have to adhere to.

If it's a personal essay, there's some more room for it to be like low, less perspective, but it's usually not, it's usually writing to the tone. And that can be a really, really challenging, like I still struggle with writing in a super, super conversational tone and I really, Ooh, when, when my piece gets really dumbed down.

That's not a nice way to say it, but that's what it feels like. Right. And I don't think I write in a way that is, um, inaccessible. I can't stand journalists who, these big words, that nobody knows what they mean. That to me is not good journalism. Good journalism is that people can read your piece and understand it

[00:55:28] YD: mm-hmm.

[00:55:29] LM: Right. Good for you. You know, some big words. Okay. Put that on your Instagram if you really need to like be like, I read the dictionary today, but you want people to be able to read your piece and understand it, so you need to write in a way that is digestible for the average person.

[00:55:45] YD: Mm-hmm. So good. So good. But not down and down like you said, because we also wanna treat our audience as a smart audience,

[00:55:52] LM: Sure. Sure.

[00:55:53] YD: That's such a great point that I think we don't discuss enough, uh, that that difference between, cuz we occasionally we talk on the podcast about the difference between travel blog and travel writing, but we've never actually talked a about it from the point of, as a writer you have to address to each publication's tone and voice and guide.

And that's such an important point as well. Um, there's something else that you said that I wanted to kind of follow up on, which is you are, 

uh, sounds like you are more optimistic about the future of journalism. Maybe than, than the future of, of content creation, which I don't know if I, I, I got you right.

Or at least that you are optimistic about the future of journalism, which is not a take I hear often. Right. Most of the time. We all, we all talk about the rates declining. We talk about pa uh, you know, advertising revenues up for publishers and how they, they're struggling, they're folding and all of that.

But sounds like you have a much more positive outlook. So tell us more about that.

[00:56:55] LM: Yeah, I mean, I've seen my earnings increase year over year. The first few years they were doubling every year, the last few years, they've plateaued a bit, but I also don't, um, limit myself to only the Conde Nas and the Hearth and these big publishers, or these, you know, bylines with a lot of clout. I pitch first who's gonna pay me the most?

[00:57:16] YD: I love that. 

[00:57:17] LM: This is my, this is my job.

[00:57:19] YD: I love that.

[00:57:20] LM: You know, this is my job. Like, for instance, I had the opportunity to write for a publication, a huge travel publication that I've never written for before, but they offered me $150 and I was like, I'm not gonna do it. And that was about a year and a half ago. And I've had moments where I was like, oh, if I had that byline, would it help me get more pieces in that publication?

But no, like I, at the end of the day, I need to make money. And so you, I pitched such a wide breadth of public publications and I don't pitch publications that pay under my rate. So, and it, and it is been going fine. And last year, I don't remember the exact amount, but over 50% of my work last year were assignments.

Those were editors reaching out to me with assignments relative to my areas of expertise, whether that be travel, sustainability, Latinx issues, veganism, social justice. They were coming to me with ideas. That were a perfect fit for my areas of expertise, and that was a joy, you know, I feel like I was like, oh, I've made it.

[00:58:20] YD: Yeah.

[00:58:20] LM: I love pitching. I'm an idea machine. I, I just counted, I've sent 75 pitches this month, which is the most, I've sent in quite a few months and not a lot have been accepted. I do think travel media right now, this year has been a struggle and I thought it was just me because I've been taking a lot of personal time off, but that I'm seeing in binders and in other places.

A lot of other writers saying it's been really hard to land stories. So I don't know if. The industry, like having just one topic you write about is very lucrative, but in a way I feel like I have diversified my income. While it's all the same industry writing, there are different, different verticals that I'm pitching.

So when travel's taking a dip, maybe I focus more on sustainability stories. You know, if maybe people aren't so interested in that, like what's happening right now. Maybe I look more towards social justice and just constantly doing a rotation and you know, if I had five hours to do nothing but come up with ideas, I'm sure I could come up with a hundred story ideas like that.

I think my background in public relations really like groomed me for that because I worked in a strategic branding agency, so essentially my job was to come up with ideas all.

[00:59:36] YD: Mm-hmm.

[00:59:37] LM: I would come up with ridiculous ideas. I worked on Adidas originals when I was 21 and I was like, let's send a sneaker to the moon.

And I, I loved sitting at a round table and having someone else be like, okay, let's make a hologram in Times Square. And I was like, yes, great. You know, where like my ideas have been so out there. And then other people kind of like, okay, let's bring this back to reality. But I've always said an idea machine.

And also having a background in public relations made me super nimble to rejection 

[01:00:03] YD: Mm-hmm. 

[01:00:04] LM: get rejected as a publicist, probably more than a journalist, honestly. And you just learn to be like, okay, great. This article isn't right for that editor. Thank you so much for responding to me. I don't email them back and say, thank you for responding for me.

I don't need to take up more space in their inbox unless it's an editor I haven't written for before. I will email them back and thank them and then say, what are you looking for? Right?

[01:00:27] YD: Mm-hmm.

[01:00:28] LM: Especially if they've said, please keep pitching me. I try to keep the conversation going, but if it's an editor I already know, okay, that's not, that's not gonna work for them.

I don't have another pitch for them right now. Let me just put that in my pocket for later. So what I usually advise to the people that I can do consultations with is to have maybe a list of five to 10 publications. You could see a story being in before you even send the pitch, so that when that rejection comes in, you're not completely devastated.

You're like, okay, number one's a no, let's try number two. 

[01:00:58] YD: Yeah. 

[01:00:59] LM: I try to follow up in a dream world three times in a month. So once a week, sometimes it's three times in a year.

[01:01:07] YD: Mm-hmm.

[01:01:08] LM: You know, that's just realistic. And then after three times I've heard nothing, I move on. There are thousands and thousands of publications and there are thousands that pay well, you know, that I, I would love to write for Kane Traveler and Nat Geo and Travel and Leisure and Rob Report.

I think those are the one in Sierra, but I haven't yet. But they're not the only publications out there. I pitch 'em constantly. I'm going to be in them, but I'm not letting myself be, um, like discouraged. I pitch 'em to other publications. Right. And I, I also think that many, many writers see those prestigious publications as the end all be all.

And if you don't write for them, you're not really a journalist. And I think that's really unfair. And I have a lot of respect for those publications and I really do wanna write for them. But sometimes it's see their newsletters and it's like, 10 things to do here. And I'm like, oh, I sent them such an amazing feature that no one else has ever thought of.

And they didn't pick up on that. But even those procedures, publications have to get clicks. They have to adhere to their advertisers. They need to make sure they have readers coming back time and time again. So I've actually been trying to fend simpler ideas to those publications to see what happens.

And then I've noticed that a lot of those publications do post a lot of personal essays where it is a writer centering themselves in an experience. So I plan to do that with some pictures, some trips I was on recently, like I wanna write about my experience in Tanzania as someone who'd never been to Tanzania before.

And like what that was like. And of course then interviewed the people that I met with, but have it be more of like a personal narrative dialogue folding in also with a. Like kind of a trip itinerary or like what to do there, because I'm seeing that that's what a lot of my writer friends have been doing.

Cause I'm tr, I try to constantly be reading publications and I'm not so good about like going to travel leisure.com and reading stuff. But I'm really good at, oh, my friend wrote this. Oh, my friend wrote that. Oh, I wanna see this. You know, cause I want them, I want them to get the clicks, but I also wanna see like, and, and they'll often tell me what editor they pitched.

And I know, okay, this editor is looking for this kind of approach to a city guide or these kind of people to feature,

[01:03:20] YD: Oh my God, Lola, you just said so many amazing things in the last 10 minutes. Like seriously, I think this is like the most gold filled part of the, of the podcast ever because just, just so many great things that audience really pay attention to what she just said in the past 10 minutes, because from.

From the fact of like, I don't, I don't accept stories below my rate, which I think is super important. We talk about this inside the community all the time. How we have to, by the way, always ask for more, which is what I preach my people, is that, you know, when you get that acceptance, always ask if there's room in the budget, you know?

Um, of course within limits, you know, it depends on like, if, if the rate is, is like $3 a word, I'm not gonna ask for $4 a word, maybe, but of course it's 

[01:04:11] LM: You're, you're gonna respond right away. Yes. I can file tomorrow.

[01:04:14] YD: I know, right? Um, but so, so important to be standing your ground with your rate. It's, it's super important follow up. How important follow up is.

We talk about that all the time as well. And what you said just now about. Um, you know, the fact that, uh, somebody hasn't written for C N T or some of these other ones doesn't make you any less of a writer. Bravo. Bravo, right? Like, but people have these, these notions, these these, um, a bit warped perspective.

So, so I just, I was so happy when you, when you said that, that was amazing. Um, man, Lola, we, I feel like we could speak so much more cause we are aligned on so many different things. And how did the hour go by already because we are just now starting to get into some really good things, right? Um, I have to have you come back to the podcast at some point if you're available.

Um, but we're gonna start wrapping up here. And so I wanted to, we didn't really talk about this. Um, at all actually today. But, um, how do you think about this experience of, of being a woman who is doing this work? Uh, because what I've experienced and what I feel when I come across, um, other female writers and photographers is that, that imposter syndrome, man, I know men experience it too.

I know it's not, you know, I know, I know everybody experiences it, but really it cripples us sometimes. We are just so much more impacted by it, I feel like, and it's, you know, from everything from how we've been socialized to, uh, to how we see the world around us. So how do you think about, or, or how has your experience been, um, in the space?

[01:05:58] LM: I refuse to let my gender be something that holds me back from my goals. I definitely see that, and I think that. Women are raised to be grateful for whatever we can get and not to cause problems. And I say, screw all that. What's hard for me is that I come across many white men in this industry who get away with things that I would never even dare to do.

For instance, pitching the New York Times when about a press trip coverage where the New York Times, you cannot write for the travel section if you've been on a press trip in three years. So I do not pitch them because I respect their regulation. I don't agree with it. But I've been on many, many trips with white male writers who just.

Completely ignore that. And I don't know if that's a gender thing. I don't know if it's a race thing. Like I don't feel comfortable doing something like that. And as far as negotiating, I really let it motivating me, knowing that Latinas have the whitest pay gap. In the United States, we generally make around 50 to 55 cents to every dollar a white man of our same educational and professional background makes.

So I asked for double because I think my white male peer is asking for that number, so why shouldn't I make it too? I don't wanna at least get it. But I, I refuse to be underpaid for anything that's outside of my control, my demographics, whether that be my ethnicity, my sexuality, my gender.

[01:07:27] YD: Mm-hmm. I love that. I love that. That's such a, such a beautiful take on it and such a powerful take on it. And, and, and I hope that more people can arrive to a point where, where they feel the same way. Um, amazing. Well, so we're gonna be wrapping up now, and, um, as we do, I wanted to ask you, uh, what would you wanna say to somebody who's maybe listening to this podcast right now, who's maybe done some writing here and there, or maybe have, you know, ha maybe has done some writing but hasn't, um, been published anywhere.

And maybe they're looking into this industry and they're interested, but they also feel like maybe they don't belong. What would you say to them?

[01:08:07] LM: Well, I would tell them first and foremost to ignore anyone who tells 'em the industry is too saturated, that there are already too many travel writers. Because like I keep saying, there are so many publications. I wouldn't necessarily start with a huge publication. You know, I would start with one like Matt Door Network works with a lot of newer writers, like they did with me, and a lot of bloggers turned writers.

So, you know, start somewhere that's reasonable, but ignore anybody who tells you there's not space for you, because there is, and

 What the other thing I thought of you were talking about someone who maybe has been published. Your pitch is a writing sample. So the quality of your pitch shows the editor the quality of your draft. So when I'm workshopping pitches with my writers that I do consultations with, they often have a really great idea, but they haven't linked out to any sites.

They haven't talked about who they're gonna interview. They haven't talked about why the story is important now. So you need to cover the who, what, when, where, and why. The same as an elevator pitch, or a media alert. And once you write that pitch, it gets rejected. You can just keep sending it.

If you get feedback from an editor, take it to heart. And update your pitch accordingly. Editors do not owe you feedback. They don't even owe you a rejection. So getting any kind of response is a win.

[01:09:23] YD: Yes,

[01:09:24] LM: you know, like, so, um, yes, just that your, your pitch is also a writing sample. I just did a consultation with a writer who hasn't been published anywhere, but she can, with three pictures that she's so deeply, intimately familiar with, that there's really no one else who could do such a good job on the stories that she could.

And I think that's especially important for, uh, BIPOC writers to remember, you know, that many publications are starting to realize like, wow, we've hired a lot of white Americans to write about Central America. Maybe we can find writers in Central America, and that should have happened light years ago. But there is more interest in working with local writers.

[01:10:03] YD: Yeah, totally. I love that. I love all your recommendations. And by the way, listeners, you have heard, uh, Lola speak now, um, uh, on the podcast today and her approach to, to writing, to, to, to storytelling, to journalism and her philosophy. So if you like that, go ahead and check it out and, and, and she can give you awesome consultations as well.

Um, finally, last question I wanna ask you, and it's a bit of a big question, but how would you start approaching that? Uh, what does it mean to be a storyteller stepping into their brilliance today?

[01:10:39] LM: Wow. Hmm. What does it. I think one of the most important lessons I've learned was from an ed, my editor at In Style, I keep talking about her, Lauren Norkin. I wrote one of my first personal essays for her, and it was about how growing up wearing thong bikinis in Uruguay helped me embrace my body. And my first draft was a diary page, and she really was like, this is really a great personal story, but where does anyone find themselves in this?

And so I really learned that every story needs people, readers need to be able to find themselves in it, be inspired or be curious. So I think storytellers, it's great to tell stories, but what is the value that you're bringing? Not just to the publication, but to the reader, you know? So what is the difference between the way you tell a story to a friend and the way you tell a story to thousands, if not millions of strangers?

[01:11:35] YD: Hmm.

[01:11:35] LM: And what do you want them to walk away? You know, I don't have time to respond to all the emails I get from people who read my articles, but I really appreciate it when someone has been so moved by my story that they feel the need to email me, even if it's hate mail. Even if I pushed a button and they really got upset with me.

Like I just wrote a very silly article about the vegan food that I love to buy at Trader Joe's. Like, I hate mail. I don't know like how, I don't know what these people are doing, but I provoked them so much that they felt the need to find my email and email me their unsolicited opinion. So whether, whether they like it or not, they engaged with my work.

[01:12:14] YD: They 

[01:12:14] LM: course, I prefer, like I got several dms from people like, oh, I live by a Trader Joe's. I'd be happy to ship you stuff to Mexico. So nice. Of course, I prefer that kind of interaction, but no matter what, if someone's reading your piece and engaging with it, Well, I don't read the comments on my personal essays anymore because they, he'd be very vicious when people leave a comment behind a, you know, ghost 2, 5, 6, 1 sign.

Uh, and I would recommend people don't read the comments and I can now tell pretty quickly when an email is gonna be really nasty and I just delete it. But I usually honestly get a really good laugh out of them. Like they don't really usually impact me in any kind of negative way.

[01:12:53] YD: Yeah. That's good. I'm so glad to hear that because that's, that's important. Our mental health is important and wow, listen, what a beautiful answer. And reader, uh, readers being able to find themselves in the story. I haven't quite heard it being put that way, but I love it. I love it so much. I will take that on with your permission and I will be talking about it as well, because I think that's just such a beautiful way to put. Uh, how, how, how great stories can be, right. When readers can find themselves in it. That's really beautiful. Lola, thank you so much for, for coming to the podcast today. It was such a pleasure for me, really to talk to you. And again, the hour flew by so fast. I don't know how. I'm really grateful for your expertise, your insight, all your knowledge that you shared with us today.

I hope our readers, um, enjoyed it.please check out Lola, follow her on Instagram, uh, check out her newsletter. We're gonna link to all of that. And, um, keep on shining. Lola, thank you so much for coming

[01:13:51] LM: Thank you so much for having me on. I really had a great time chatting with you.

[01:13:55] YD: Thank you so much for listening today. I hope you enjoy the conversation I had with Lola, and if so, I want to ask you to please take a minute to support our show. You can do that by leaving us a rating or a review on the Apple Podcast app, or by sharing this episode with your friends or posting about it on social media.

It really helps us get discovered by more listeners that would find our show helpful and it means so much to me. I read every single review we get, and I take them very seriously because I want to create a great show for you. So if you've been inspired by something you heard today in our conversation with Lola or in any other episodes of our show, please take just one minute right now to support it by living us your rating or review.

That's one of the best ways you can help us out. And just a reminder that I'm leading a full day media workshop. I'm calling on assignments on Thursday, May 18th, 2023 in San Juan, Puerto Rico. And you can join me. Okay. You can join me for this event. An exclusive. Three Day Creator Ticket to Wonderful with Summit in Puerto Rico on May 19th through the 21st is also included in your registration.

This is a really awesome deal in which you'll be getting a ticket to my own assignment workshop on Thursday and a three day access to the WITS Summit on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. We have limited spots for this, and you can register by by May 11th when you visit travelmedialab.com/puerto-rico and the link to it is in the show notes.

Thank you again so much for listening, and stay tuned for next week.